Your guide to mowing electric with Jukka Kukkonen

More and more Minnesotans are leveling up their lawn care with an electric mower. But do they live up to the hype and can they tackle the tough stuff?

The good news is that for most residential uses, and increasingly more and more commercial uses, electric mowers are actually a superior and more economical choice than gas mowers. Battery technology has advanced dramatically in the past decade and due to this, we’re seeing more powerful electric cars and more capable electric lawnmowers.

Join us for a webinar we recently recorded with Jukka Kukkonen and guests from Fresh Energy and the Minnesota clean Cities Coalition.

View the video version of the webinar here: https://fresh-energy.org/event/webinar-your-guide-to-mowing-electric

Fresh Energy’s mission is to shape and drive bold policy solutions to achieve equitable carbon-neutral economies. Together we are working toward a vision of a just, prosperous, and resilient future powered by a shared commitment to a carbon-neutral economy. Learn about Fresh Energy's work and our bold "Vision 2030: Fresh Energy's Strategic Framework" at our website fresh-energy.org.


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Transcript

Jo Olson: [00:00:11] Hello and welcome to Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. Fresh Energy is a Minnesota nonprofit working to speed our state's transition to a clean energy economy. My name is Jo Olson. I'm the chief communications officer here at Fresh Energy, and today we are sharing a recording with you from what's always one of our more popular webinars. It's called Your Guide to Mowing Electric, and it features all-electric Minnesota celebrity Jukka Kukkonen and special guests from both Fresh Energy and the American Lung Association. In this webinar, we covered a really wide range of topics centered around electric lawn care, battery technology, and the air quality implications of how we care for our yards. All right. With that, I'm going to begin the recording.

Isak Kvam: [00:01:00] Hello and welcome everyone to Fresh Energy's webinar. Your guide to going electric. This webinar is hosted by Fresh Energy and we are joined by Jukka Kukkonen from Shift to Electric and Elma Monluo from Minnesota Clean Cities. Some of you might remember Jukka from our Electric Boat webinar that we had last month, and if you missed that one, it's up on our YouTube channel and our podcast feed so you can check that out to learn more about electric boats. My name is Isak. My pronouns are he, him, and I am the senior writer and editor on the communications team at Fresh Energy. I'm very glad to see everyone joining us today. If you've just joined us, feel free to introduce yourself in the chat with your name, where you're joining us from, and then you can also let us know where you are on your electric outdoor equipment journey. Maybe you're fully gas. Maybe you have a few pieces of electrified outdoor equipment, or maybe you've already gone full electric and you are joining this webinar to to show off, you know, kind of your transition so far. Um, as we're getting started, I do just want to take care of a few housekeeping things. First off, we will be recording this webinar today. I will be sending you an email with a link to today's recording later today or possibly tomorrow morning.

Isak Kvam: [00:02:13] And we'll have the full video up on our website and YouTube. And then we'll also publish the audio version on Fresh Energy's podcast Decarbonize, which you can find on your favorite podcasting app. And I'm going to hold about ten minutes at the end of our webinar today for a Q&A session so that you can get your questions answered by any of us, but feel free to submit your questions at any time using the little Q&A button at the bottom of your screen. Just click on that, submit your question, and then you can either type a response during today's webinar, or we'll get to it at the end during the last ten minutes. Moving along. Some of you may be new to Fresh Energy. Welcome. Fresh Energy has been working on clean energy and climate policy issues here in Minnesota and throughout the Midwest for over 30 years. We're changing the world through bold policy solutions that move us to a just, -carbon-freefuture. And we're helping everyone who lives here end dependence on fossil fuels, electrify their lives, and build a healthy, clean energy economy where everybody can thrive. I also want to quickly share that Fresh Energy is thrilled to announce that the search for our new Chief Executive Officer here has concluded with the Board of Directors unanimously voting to hire Doctor Margaret Cherney Hendrick.

Isak Kvam: [00:03:28] If you're familiar with Fresh Energy, you might know that Margaret has been on staff with us for seven years and has served as a thought leader, accomplished fundraiser and strategic policy expert. Margaret transitioned from her previous role as deputy CEO into the CEO position last month, and we are very excited to welcome her into her new role. All right. Here's what we've got lined up for you. For you, today, we're going to kick things off with a little five minute overview of Fresh Energy's energies. Transportation policy. Work with Nick. Then we'll hear from Elma about the health impacts of gas lawn mowers for 5 or 10 minutes, and then we will dive into Jukka's Guide to Mowing Electric for the bulk of the webinar. And again, we'll hold ten minutes at the end to answer your Q&A questions. So let's move on to today's introductions. You already met me. My name is Isak Kvam. I'm the senior writer and editor on Fresh Energies Comms team, and I am joined today by Jukka Kukkonen of Shift to Electric, our clean transportation consultant, as well as Nick Haeg, Fresh Energy's senior associate of EVs, and Elma, who is an intern at Minnesota Clean Cities. So next, I'm going to hand it over to Nick to walk us through the exciting transportation policy work underway at Fresh Energy. Nick, take it away.

Nick Haeg: [00:04:44] Thanks, Isak. Yeah. Fresh Energy. You know, we have a lot of work on the transportation side. Transportation is the highest emitting sector in Minnesota. And so we have a lot to do in order to decarbonize this sector. Um, we're seeing a lot of progress in personal vehicle electrification, uh, that has ticked up in recent years, supported by policies at the state and federal level. And we're also seeing that that's going into, you know, non-personal vehicles as well. So we're seeing electric school buses and transit buses have been becoming a popular choice. And we're seeing that those have a lot of benefits for our local air as well as the climate. Fresh Energy is also committed to working with utilities in order to make sure that the integration of these vehicles into the grid has positive benefits for everyone, not just the people who are driving the vehicles, but all of us that use electricity are going to benefit from the, uh, prices and the reductions in prices that are resulting from these EVs. Integration. Fresh Energy is also really excited about non-electric vehicle, Non-electric side transportation decarbonization solutions like sustainable aviation fuel. And we've been working at the legislature to get a tax credit for that, to help our farmers and incentivize, uh, the state's transition to, uh, cleaner aviation fuel.

Nick Haeg: [00:06:09] Um, so next slide, please. Isak. Um, so, you know, why should we care about electrifying lawn care? Why does Fresh Energy, which is concerned about decarbonization, broadly care about what would, you know, on the surface, seem like a very small part of the landscape. Um, I think the the real answer is that Electric Lawn Care, uh, has a lot of parallels to what we're trying to do on the in the bigger picture with electrification for personal vehicles. And it helps build a community and a sense of, you know, familiarity with what this technology can do and the benefits that it has. Um, in addition to that, it helps to reduce air pollution. It helps to reduce noise pollution, and it has a lot of positive health benefits that I think we're going to hear more about today. Um, so excited to learn more. I also recently just bought my first electric, uh, lawn trimmer. And I'm excited to to learn more about the landscape from Jukka today, so I'll pass it on to him.

Isak Kvam: [00:07:16] Next we have not Jukka. We are actually moving to Elma next. So Elma, I'll hand it over to you to talk about the health impacts of gas mowers. And then we'll move over to Jukka.

Elma Monluo: [00:07:28] Thanks, Isak and hi everyone. My name is Elma and I'm an intern with the Minnesota Clean Cities and Communities Coalition, and we're coordinated by the American Lung Association in Minnesota. So before I jump into my main topic, I want to quickly explain why someone with the American Lung Association is talking about air quality and electric lawn equipment. The mission of American Lung Association is to save lives by improving lung health and preventing lung disease. And one of the big ways we work toward that is by improving the air we all breathe, because dirty air can cause or make lung disease worse. Our team, based in Saint Paul, also helps lead the Minnesota Clean Cities Coalition, which is a national network of over, is a part of a national network with over 75 coalitions in partnership with the US Department of Energy's Clean Cities and Communities program, these coalitions bring together local partners to boost energy security, support cleaner transportation options, and reduce our reliance on petroleum. That includes things like cleaner fuels, advanced vehicle technologies, and energy saving practices, all of which help protect both our environment and public health. Next slide please. A lot of people are surprised to learn that in Minnesota, the biggest source of pollution actually comes from mobile sources. Essentially the vehicles and equipment that we use every day. That's a big reason why our work focuses so much on cleaner fuels and transportation. There is a link on the slide, um, a full report going over the benefits of electric vehicles and lung health.

Elma Monluo: [00:09:04] But I'm not going to go into that today because our focus is on lawn equipment. So air pollution impacts all of us. But it's especially harmful for certain groups like children, the elderly and anyone with lung conditions such as asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It is also important to recognize that communities of color and low income communities are often hit the hardest. That's partly because these groups tend to have higher rates of respiratory and other health issues. They're also more likely to live or work in places with more air pollution, like near busy highways and industrial areas. And there's more emerging research showing that people living in areas with high levels of air of pollution may have been more severely affected by Covid 19, which adds another layer to why this work matters so much. Next slide please. Now let's take a closer look at the pollution that comes specifically from yard equipment. I've got two big facts to highlight here. First, a typical four stroke gas lawn mower for just one hour creates about the same amount of pollution as driving a car for 500 miles. So that's a fairly big impact for such a short amount of use. Second, every year at least 17 million gallons of gasoline are spilled while fueling lawn and garden equipment. Um, this is a pollution issue, but it's also a safety and concern issue, especially for larger fleets and frequent users of these equipments.

Elma Monluo: [00:10:37] And on the left, I have a pie chart that is provided by the MPCa showing the breakdown of pollutants in the big and off road vehicles such as lawnmowers, which. Account for about 20% of emissions. And then on the right you'll see a breakdown of where. Volatile organic compounds or VOCs are coming from. These are chemicals that contribute to smog and poor air quality. And keep in mind, these two data sets are a bit outdated coming from a research study that was done in 2015. However, it's still relevant today. And there's also a growing demand for landscaping services, according to data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. As the industry grows, so does the need for more equipment. Unless we shift toward cleaner and more efficient alternatives. One last note. While four stroke engines are cleaner than two strokes, producing only about a 10th of emissions, they still contribute significantly to air pollution and usually only run for half as long before needing maintenance or replacement. Next slide please. Well let's talk about the most concerning concerning pollutants from gas powered equipment. Particulate matter especially the really small kind called PM 2.5. Pm 2.5, refers to particles that are smaller than 2.5 micrometers in diameter. To give you a sense of how tiny that is, about 20 of those particles could fit across the width of a single human hair. And that's what you're seeing in the visual on this slide.

Elma Monluo: [00:12:13] Because they are so small, PM 2.5 particles can get into your eyes and airways and even travel deep into your lungs. From there, they can affect your respiratory systems and your heart and blood vessels. Even short term exposure to these fine particles can cause health issues, and over time, breathing in PM 2.5 has been linked to more serious conditions like chronic bronchitis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, cardiovascular disease, and even lung cancer. Next slide please. Another set of pollutants that is important to discuss are volatile organic compounds or VOCs and nitrogen oxides, both of which are released by gas powered equipment. These two pollutants are a big deal because they react together to form ground loan. Ground level ozone. When the sun's UV rays are out, especially on hot, sunny days, the reaction speeds up and the ozone levels rise. Unlike the ozone layer, high in the high up in the atmosphere that protects us, ground level ozone is harmful. Breathing. Breathing it in is kind of like getting a sunburn on the inside of your lungs. It can trigger asthma attacks, worsen lung conditions, and lead to ER visits or hospital stays, especially for the most vulnerable groups like children and the elderly and people with existing health issues. Next slide please. So using electric yard equipment is a great way to reduce the pollution that you generate and expose yourself to this. There's a document that shows, um, all the currently available models.

Elma Monluo: [00:13:54] And we have compiled a list of snowblowers, lawnmowers, chainsaws and all the equipment that you use for your yard care. So each row, um, is a particular piece of equipment and each column is a piece of information about it. The list is available at Electric Lawn Info. Um, for battery powered snowblowers, for example, we have about 22 Snowblowers for various manufacturers and for lawn mowers we have about five pages of information, um, in regards to that. Um, the columns also show the model number for each um, for each Equipment piece, so you're able to search it up easily and find which ones that you would like. Next slide please. And then towards the towards the end of each row we've included the MSRP, warranty length and a list of other outdoor tools that are compatible with the same battery, which is helpful if you're building a full set of electric tools. There's also a simple key at the bottom to help decode the abbreviations like CS for chainsaw and DT for hedge trimmer, and so on. Next slide please. So thank you so much for listening. That wraps up my section. I just want to encourage you to check out your local electricity providers rebate programs. And many of them offer discounts or incentives for switching to electric lawn equipment, which can make the transition a lot more affordable. So I'll pass it over to you now. Thank you.

Isak Kvam: [00:15:35] Thanks, Elma. Selma. Um, I do want a quick highlight to, I think one of the more surprising things that Elma brought up is that using a lawn mower for an hour is the same as driving for 500 miles before I started learning more about, you know, electric outdoor equipment, I think I thought that it had a much smaller pollution impact. But the reality is, without powerful, um, exhaust emissions controls like we have for vehicles, these, although they're small, they actually do pollute a lot. Um, and so it's interesting to learn. I've used I still have a gas mower, but I've used an electric chainsaw and an electric snow blower, and they are so nice and easy to use. I wish that I had switched sooner, and so I'm excited to turn it over to you, Jukka, to tell us about the whole wide breadth of options that we have available to us for outdoor electric equipment.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:16:24] All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Elma, for all the good information that you provided there. And thank you, Isak, for opening and Nick for the update on that side. I will share my screen here. Um, so you can see my slides here. All right. That should that should work. Well, for for now. Um, the thing that I will, I will say here, first of that about the, um, pollution from these, um, lawnmowers and other small engines is that it is really, really horrible. I mean, being an automotive engineer by training, having been looking at internal combustion engine in and out, um, these small engines are the worst of everything, uh, because they don't have any emission control systems. So that's why the emission levels are so high. And that's why I always feel so bad in nice summer days when people crank up their traditional internal combustion engine, lawnmowers and other equipment. I'm like, ah, that's really, really bad for our neighborhood. But the good news is that we have better options now. And that's what we are talking about, about here today. So, um, why are we moving into electrifying all of this? Um, that comes comes down to the poor emissions and poor efficiency of internal combustion engines. So internal combustion engine, we have used in different ways for the last 100 years, and they have provided good power for us. But the challenge is that we are trying to capture the energy that is in chemical form in gasoline by using small explosions, and that is very inefficient way to do anything, um, and produces a lot of pollution.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:18:03] Uh, so internal combustion engines are 15 to 25% efficient when it comes to cars. And I think small engines are actually even less than that. So it's it's really efficiency levels are very, very poor. And then we compare this to electric motor where we had just one moving part the rotor. So that's that's a huge difference there. Um, and that we can understand that the simplicity here um, is, is makes it makes it clear why we are so much more efficient. We are four times more efficient with electric motors, so you use much less energy. And of course, the pollution levels are no local pollution. And even from the electricity production, way, way, way lower pollution overall. Technology has really advanced in the battery side. Um, I would say probably like five, six, seven years ago still. Or if we go back to like early early 2010, 2011, 2012, that time batteries were the limiting factor. They were the most expensive part of it, manufacturing. One of the batteries that you used in an electric lawnmower might have cost companies 150 to $200 or something like that, so it's really hard to make an affordable, uh, mowers at that point. But nowadays the batteries for electric lawn mowers probably cost them manufacturers maybe 20 to $50 to make.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:19:21] Uh, so it's so much cheaper. The battery prices have come down a lot, and that's why we have we have better options available. And then of course, the grid has gotten cleaner. It's not that big of an impact on this one, because we are using so little energy when we're using our electric lawn mowers, but it still good for overall for all our shift to electric electrifying different areas. So some benefits from electric lawn mowers. Um, again, we're using way less energy. Um, I did some, uh, calculation. And in my calculation, I'm saying the mowing average city lot takes the same amount of electricity as boiling half a gallon of water. So if you put a half a gallon of water, I mean, if you boil that, that's the same energy amount that you'd be using for for your mowing your lawn. So when you next time take a shower, you might be actually using close to the same amount of energy. Then the mowing the lawn if you're using electric um mower. So it's, it's uh it's not very much energy that we're using there. Then there's of course no emissions locally. So that's great for the user. You don't have to inhale any of it. Or especially if you put put your kids to do the mowing. I'm like, why would you put your kids to do mowing with the traditional internal combustion engine? Because they will be exposed to all of that, those emissions.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:20:44] Um, not very good idea. After all, it's good, of course, for the neighborhood in hot days when we have, um, already not so much movement in the air. If you start to run a lot of, uh, internal combustion engine, small engine, internal combustion engines in your neighborhood, we will start to feel the impact right away in our neighborhood. Um, same, of course, applies to city. And we know that in planet level, we do make a difference to when we move away from burning fossil fuels. They are much quieter, which of course is great for the user. Um, that's that's one thing, but it's also great for neighborhood. My, um, neighbor, for example, put it this way when he moved from, uh, from internal combustion engine to electric lawnmower. He was like. I was just feeling so bad to mowing my lawn. Uh, if I had to do it later in the day or something like that. And now I can do it in the middle of the night. If I feel like no one is going to be bothered by it. So that that's kind of kind of cool thing. They still make noise, but it's not really that much of a noise anymore. Uh, with these mowers, there's less vibration, which is good, of course. And then you don't need to mess with gas.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:21:54] You don't have to buy it, you don't have to store it. And there's no off gassing. So your garage does not smell like gas anymore, which is a really, really nice thing. Uh, overall they always start. They are much, much cheaper to use. I'll come back to that. Uh, some calculations about that. Very easy maintenance. Um, they're also lighter weight and then, uh, easier to store. Uh, store the you can, for example, most of these, I think all of them you can store upright. We should just lift it up on the bar by the side of the wall there. They they take much less space that way. Usually you can't do that with internal combustion engine ones, because then the oil goes in the wrong places and stuff like that. So you might start to have a problem if you do something like that. With traditional mowers, corded or cordless, you nowadays think that everything is battery powered, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. If you have a small city lot and, uh, you want a lighter mower because these are lighter, if you're corded and you just want the most affordable option, these are actually very affordable and also very powerful for for just smaller city lots. Um, you can get them for like 100 to 200 bucks. Um, Elma mentioned they're the least we have the corded, uh, lawn mower info list here, and, uh, we have over one and a half pages of options here, um, for people.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:23:29] And the prices start from a little over $100 to like $250 or something in between that, um, excellent choices. And if you even, uh, looking for cheaper options, you can look at the, uh, Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist or something like that. You can often, oftentimes pick up, um, used ones there. If people have upgraded to a different, different units. Um, I, for example, my lot is so small that I could probably get by with just a, just a corded one. Um, I don't necessarily would need the, uh, battery power that I have right now. I'm just like that. That would be probably fine with me. Um, if you want to use something like this, you have to have accessible outlets outside in right locations, and then you have to be able to willing to deal with the cord. Of course, you have to take care of the cord when you go, go back and forth. Then make sure the cord doesn't go under the anymore, so be a little careful about that. But other than that, um, they're great machines. Then I would recommend choosing the battery, uh, mower if you don't want to deal with the cord. That's understandable. If you want a self-propelled mower, then that those are only available as a battery ones. And, um, then if you want to use the same batteries with other yard equipment, there's always an option for that.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:24:49] So think about that. What works best for you. Then how to choose a lawn mower. You think about the size of your lawn first. Um, standard city lot is 40ft by 120ft. So that's 4800ft² minus the house. For example, um, could be 800m², maybe 400 driveway, a couple of hundred more, and then some paths that you have there and landscaping. Maybe you have 3000ft² left there. Um, in your in your yard as a lawn. So, um, then you then you can think about how much do you mow every down or how often do you mow and how much you cut down each time? This depends on how much fertilizer you also use in your lawn. Truthfully, in my case, I don't use any fertilizer on my lawn. Milan is not the most sharpest looking lawn in the whole world, but it's still a nice, nice lawn. Uh, but since I don't use fertilizer, I also don't have to mow it so much. So that depends on what your what's your approach to it? We also have done a lot of landscaping. So our, our um mowing area has gotten smaller every year almost. But um, if you do a lot of lot of cutting and um, you think have you think about, um, how take take that into account. You have to consider the battery capacity.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:26:24] I have some calculation on next slide about this one. And then think about the deck diameter. Um, yeah. From 16in to 22 inch. Usually um, smaller ones work are more agile and work better for smaller lots and also lighter to use. And the bigger ones of course use are better for the bigger lots, so you have to do less of less, uh, go less up to the yard, uh, with the bigger one. And, um, there's also a set here if you cut rarely on long grass, choose higher voltage. Um, that was maybe true a couple of years ago. I don't know if it's that much much of an impact anymore. I think all of them are powerful, regardless of the voltages, but usually the higher voltage has a bit more power available, so just be aware of that. So if you think about the battery capacity and electricity cost and uh, what size battery you should be considering there. So first we I would recommend to understand what's the calculation here how to calculate the battery capacity. Because oftentimes there's discussion about AMP hours. I have a four amp hour or six amp hour battery or something like that. And then you think like well can this be compared just by amp hours. And the answer to that is not really. Um, you can of course if it's the same battery manufacturer, same voltage, then you can compare the different amp hours.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:27:49] But if you have a different manufacturers batteries and different voltages then direct comparison doesn't work. But what does work is that if you do the math and then you have to go into watt hours and it's volts time, amp hours is watt hours. And here I have an example here. The top one up there. No I have the lower one there which is which is 56V times five amp hours. And that's 280 watt hours. If you look at the echo1 there on top, and that actually provides the watt hours there already. It doesn't talk about the amp hours. This talk about 102 watt hours. But between those two batteries you can see. Okay. The other one is over two times bigger. Um so the the lower one there is the eco battery is much bigger than the eco battery there on top. But the only thing you can do the comparison is watt hours. And what I'm usually saying that with 100 watt hours of battery capacity, you can mow about 1500ft² roughly, and then if you have a battery capacity, then 400 watt hours, then you could do 6000ft² with that one. Uh, as with the non self-propelling ones. The good news is that it doesn't matter if you if you if you're Maurer comes with the one better and you're like, okay, this is almost good enough, but maybe I could maybe I would need a little bit more.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:29:23] You can always buy a second battery for it. So you just buy the unit with what battery comes with it. You buy a second battery for it okay. Now you doubled your capacity there. Now you can do much more work with it. Um, then if you look at the cost side of things, um, thousand watt hours is one kilowatt hour that we might be more familiar with when we look at our electricity bill, um, from our utility company. And one kilowatt hour of electricity cost on average is about $0.15 nowadays. So if you think about the average citizen being 3000ft², after taking all the all the, uh, house and other, uh, carrots and other things away from it. And, um, my calculation, it takes about 200 watt hours to mow it. So if we assume some charging inefficiencies and say that we need 250 watt hours for it. Uh, when we're charging it from the grid. This means that if you mow your lawn four times, you have used one kilowatt hour of energy, so it costs you $0.15. And this means that you can mow average city lot 27 times for $1. And this this just gives you a good idea that really using your electric equipment doesn't cost you anything practically. It's it's so little energy that they use. And the cost is so low that, uh, that that's a that's a good example of it.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:30:52] Other considerations, when you think about the, uh, more more lawn mowers there if you need a self-propelled or not. Um, I have totally flat surface here, and so I haven't felt the need for self-propelled. But if you have a more, um, inclined in your yard, you might want to consider if self-propelled would be a, um, thing for you. Um, how you use your, uh, more tools. Are you collecting the clippings or are you letting it mulch? Um, you can make sure that the machine does both. Well, uh, when you choose that there are actually new kind of blade structures, because usually we're used to that. There's just one blade that goes around. But there nowadays are setups where you have dual plates, so there's two plates that are a little bit offset from each other. And that actually does better mulching. So it makes the clippings smaller. And also it provides more lift. So if you are collecting the clippings, bigger portion of those will go into the clipping bag, uh, if you want to clean it or if you are using it to, um, get some, uh, some leaves off the grass in a fall, it also helps helps with that. So you can look at the dual plate options. Uh, many manufacturers provide that option to cutting. Height adjustments are usually from one to 1.5in to four inches, and in this picture you can see in a blue one or I'm sorry, the red, uh, mower there you can see that it has handles on each wheel there to adjust that.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:32:23] But most of the models have just one handle that adjusts all four wheels at the same time. So it's much more convenient that way if you don't, of course move it too much. If you always keep it in the same level, it doesn't matter if it's a if you have to do it for four wheels individually or for one. Totally fine. Um, the weight of course, also is quite different. So depending on how much you that means to you, you can look at what's the weight of the machine and then the warranty of course, and then consider what kind of other equipment are using the same batteries, outdoor equipment, trimmers, hedge trimmers, leaf blowers, chain saws, snow blowers. But also some of the manufacturers have also hand tools that use the same equipment, so it might be that you'll be able to use the same batteries for your some of your hand tools and also your for your outdoor equipment. So think about that and and look at what the options are. And as Elma mentioned there uh on this list, um, the, the for example for battery lawn mowers, it lists all the other equipment that you can use the same batteries with. So what what kind of other equipment there are available in this lineup.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:33:36] And also when you look at those make sure that you you have exactly the right batteries because some of the manufacturers have different lines. They might have a 24 volt line and 36 volt line. So make sure that the that you're using. Then if you're buying another equipment that is actually the same model line lineups, that the batteries will fit there between them. Care and maintenance. Um, it's good to clean the extra clippings. Uh, Underneath on the on the deck there after each use, but make sure that you remove the battery before doing this. Just for safety perspective. You remove the battery then or if it's recorded on unhook the cord. Um, then you're safe to work on it. Um, you don't have any safety issues there. Um, at the same time, when you're cleaning it, I would recommend check out the plate and sharpen if needed. It might be what you need to do. There is just have a hand file and just file it a little bit every time. Just every time you file it just a little bit, it keeps it sharp. It works well, um, if it needs you can of course take it. Take it to a professional sharpener. Um, when, whenever there's a need for more sharpening action there. When you are storing it for the winter time. Uh, the battery, I would say leave the battery three quarters charge, half charge, whatever, whatever works there.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:35:03] And, um, check the chart. Charts level once or twice in the winter time and charge it if needed. Um, usually there is no need for it. These, um, have very low self-discharge levels, so you usually don't need to charge it during the winter time, but it's still good to check it out. And I keep mine in our basement. So a little bit cooler area, um, during the winter time. But in my case I used the same battery also for, uh, snow blower in winter time. So it gets some use in winter time too. Those batteries, it's not just up for the whole whole time, but, um, it'll be used in the winter time too. But we don't talk about snow blowers this time, so don't worry. We're getting to summer. We're not talking about snow blowers. It's if we do this in the fall again, then we'll talk about snow blowers. Then another new addition to our options are robot mowers. And these have been around for a few years now, and we've heard a really good response from people who are using them. Um, this is quite a bit different approach. You practically put it outside in the beginning of summer. It leaves the whole summer outside. It keeps the grass mowed all the time. You can set it, set, set it like you want to mow it a couple times a week. Or you want to go it every day.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:36:25] It goes to the to work, whatever you will set it. Set a parameter, which area does and how it does the different areas. There's a little bit of a setup work to do there, but once you've done it, people are really happy with it because it does that automatically. It charges automatically. It's very convenient. It can also work on on pretty steep hills. So that's not an issue. Um, and they are a little bit more expensive because they have a more functionality in that way. But it's so convenient because you don't have to do the work. Then your lawn stays all the time, nicely clipped And, um, and it's, it's it's just, uh, people are really enjoying those what I'm hearing. I have so small loan that I really don't need it. And since I don't put fertilizer, uh, my loan. Loan, uh, mowing needs are not that high that I would need it. But if I would have a bigger lawn and, um, and I would, it would be needing mowing a lot, that this is definitely a good option. Some people have actually replaced their bigger, um, like a. Bigger lawn mowers if they, if they need riding mowers and stuff like that with robot mowers. So that has been a good for them because then they don't have to spend their weekend doing the mowing but can enjoy it, uh, with other doing other things.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:37:51] All right. Next we'll move in the riding mowers. Um, 3 or 4 years ago we didn't have any in the market, and now we do. There is actually a very good selection of riding mowers of different kind, both zero turn and more traditional tractor type, uh, riding mower. So those who um use these are definitely recommend looking at the electric options. There are even bigger commercial units available, so quite a good variety of of these available nowadays. And here I'm just showing a this is not really an ad for Greenworks or anything else. Greenworks just happens to be one manufacturer. But I was just impressed when once I looked at their, um, I was at one expo and I took their their like a product, uh, manual of their that list all their products like 150 pages. They have so many different products and all of these different equipment areas riding mowers, lawn mowers, trimmers, blowers, chainsaws, pressure washers, vacuums, power tools, hedge trimmers, Streamers, batteries and chargers and even some fun E transportation machines and robotic mowers. Everything. And this is not just them. Other manufacturers have the same, but it's just amazing how many units we have now to choose from. Uh, so that's that's the thing. Then we'll talk a little bit about some of the other equipment that we have. Electric leaf blowers. Um, they're very easy choice if someone is thinking about leaf blowers.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:39:30] Electric leaf blowers are very easy choice because gas blowers can only compete if you have acres of land in any of the smaller places. Electric leaf blowers are always a better choice for it. Um. Size matters. You can look at what there are different sizes available so you can look at what works for you. There are a variety of different budgets to very cheap ones, to much more expensive ones. Um, and then you should look at the Compatibility, of course, with your other tools. So that's that's the thing with the with the electric leaf blowers. And the cool thing about this that you can use them a variety of different ways. Um, I truthfully use my leaf blower hardly ever for blowing leaves. Um, but usually I use it to clean clean our patio from all the other junk that has flown there. That's that's my most common use for it. Um, I do use it to, uh, you know, winter time. If there's just a light coating of snow that has come down, I actually use that one to clean up our patio or pathways with it because it's the most easiest way to do it. Um, and it gets totally cleaned all the, all the, uh, paths. So it's enjoyable in that way too. And, um, yeah. And I've also used in some of the projects in some like cleaning some hoses or or stuff like that, or cleaning some in a, in a project, like working in some construction projects, you need to clean some area from sawdust and you're finding blowing it in some other area.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:41:13] It's actually a very useful tool for that too. Variety of different ways that you can use this. Then we have also have electric chainsaws. And this has really improved this area in recent years a lot. Um, if you talked about battery chainsaws with people like few years ago, they were considering they're mostly some toys or some hobby things. It's not that all like that anymore. Um, advantage is simple. Always starts its work very quiet. A lot of professional tree trimmers are now using these one hand, uh, units for tree trimming, and it's so much nicer when you have one of those in the neighborhood working, because you don't really know about it. You can use a little bit of like little stirring, but it's nothing that bothers you. It's a different thing when you have a traditional internal combustion engine once used. There are so much more noisy. Um, they don't, of course smell. You don't have the exhaust gas. And again, these are even closer to your, uh, where you breathe your exhaust. Uh, so, so much better for you as a user. Um, you don't need to handle the gasoline or two stroke oil if you still would have a two stroke units and so forth.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:42:31] It's it's just a mess, uh, to play with those. And I'm happy that I don't have to do any of that anymore. Um, I would recommend using bio based chain oil. So you're not using fossil fuels there either. They work just fine for, for for the use, but they're totally bio degradable. I also recommend and learn how to sharpen the chain. If you don't know that yet, it's not that complicated, but it's good to kind of like every day you work for it after after the day, you just take your your file and just file through your chain. It always stays sharp, sharp. And it it's much easier, much more fun to use when you have a sharp chain. Nothing worse than having a chainsaw and a dull chain. It's really, really horrible. So always sharpen it and remember that you can sharpen. You don't have to go to the store and buy a new chain. You very easily can sharpen it and just keep it sharp all the time. That's the best way to do it. These are perfect for home owners and many professional needs already. Um, definitely. And uh, also consider if you need a corded or battery. Um, I recently bought to our cabin a corded one because I had easy access to electricity there, and I just wanted something that is powerful and easy to use there and also a bit more affordable. Coded one works well for that use because I don't have to take it too far.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:43:59] I can just use it to chop the wood there. Firewood and Cody one was the perfect for that bar length. Um, I usually don't buy too long of a bar once, just you buy the one that you need because usually you get a better performance with the little shorter bar. Um, that that would be my recommendation there. And then change speed is one thing that I would look at if you're looking for, uh, efficient and powerful, uh, chainsaw, look at what's the speed of the chain, because that you can compare different saws between higher the chain speed, more efficient and more faster. You can do that. And then of course, remember safety, have good safety equipment. When you use these. Here's a picture of one. Uh, as I've said in the past, uh, people were really doing these, but nowadays professionals even are like, yep, these are actually much better for many of the uses. So so it's it's very cool to see that. And that's that now in a Q&A portion. And I think Isak has a better slide than this uh, for us for this one. But uh, I would definitely recommend check out the electric learning for that org where we have all those info lists available for you to download. And uh, and we'll have the links to the Fresh Energy website there too, for all the information. I'll stop sharing my slide here.

Isak Kvam: [00:45:24] Thanks, Jukka, I think I might have to switch to one of those robot lawnmowers that you were talking about. Those look really cool. Yeah, I mean, I kind of like I enjoy mowing my lawn. Um, but I think that using one of those there, there's nicer ways to enjoy the nice weather on your weekend than exactly. Yeah.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:45:40] There are better ways to do it.

Isak Kvam: [00:45:42] Um, so we're going to switch to the Q&A session now. So if you haven't yet, feel free to submit your Q&A using the Q&A button on the bottom of your screen. And as folks are submitting those, I am going to give a quick plug for some upcoming events here at Fresh Energy. If you haven't before, you can sign up for updates about our events at Fresh Energy by going to Fresh Energy org. And that way, you can stay up to date with our many, many events that we have on the calendar this summer. I want to give a quick plug for loggers and legislation next week at Urban Growler. It's next Wednesday. It's going to be a ton of fun. We're having a gathering of clean energy advocates, the Fresh Energy Action Network, and then we'll also have the Fresh Energy staff available there. And we're going to be talking about clean energy and the 2025 legislative session here in Minnesota. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm volunteering at the Fresh Energy booth, and we have a brand new Plinko board with some clean energy trivia. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Isak Kvam: [00:46:41] I like meeting new people. Come join us if you can, and you'll also have a chance to meet our new CEO, Margaret there as well. Heavily recommend people to sign up for that. And if you can't make it for loggers and legislation, don't worry, we've got another event coming up too. We have fresh frolic, the all electric party at Theodore Wirth Park on July 15th. Middle of summer. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to be talking about electric outdoor equipment like Jukka's been talking about today. And you can scan either of these QR codes to sign up for those. But as always, you can always go to the events page on our website to get those as well. All right. With that, let's launch into the Q&A. Um, I think I know. Okay. Jill did submit a question in the chat about bringing your battery indoors for the winter, but I know you talked about that a little bit, but would you mind reiterating on that, Jukka, about can you bring your battery inside for the winter? Can you leave it in your garage? What does that look like?

Speaker6: [00:47:38] Yeah, I.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:47:39] Usually bring my battery indoors, um, in our basement, and, uh, keep it there, even if you leave it in the in the in a garage. Not an issue. Um, that's that's totally fine, too. Um, but, uh, I, I especially like to keep it inside, because then in the winter time when I need it for my snow blower, it's better to use the batteries when they're warm and not just totally cold. If you're not using it in the winter time, it's not that that big of a difference. But, uh, still, I would probably just bring it inside in my garage or in my basement.

Isak Kvam: [00:48:11] That's a good tip. I keep my snowblower in the garage where it's cold, so I'm thinking I might I might have to make some adjustments. Um, but that's it.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:48:18] It really. It really. I have not based on. I mean, I've had different kind of battery, uh, equipment for last over the last 20 years. I haven't seen any difference, uh, in that if I keep them outside for the winter time or inside. So not an issue.

Isak Kvam: [00:48:35] Okay. Our next question is about how long the batteries last. Not when you're using them, but lifetime wise. Do they last a year or two years? Four years. Is there kind of an idea of Idea how often you have to purchase new batteries for your equipment.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:48:47] I don't have a good answer to that. There seems to be some differences between different manufacturers. So probably when you're buying the unit, I would just do a little, uh, online research to see what users are saying. Um, on the longevity of their batteries with electric cars, we've already seen that the batteries can last really, really long time no issues issues there with with them. But these are a little different thing. Kind of like your laptop batteries. There are differences in laptop batteries too. So when you're talking about smaller batteries um it it there's much more variability there. Therefore I can really say a say a directly what it is right now I have my batteries for my, uh, ego. They probably like 5 or 6 years old or something like that, and they still work fine.

Isak Kvam: [00:49:38] So and then on the same topic of batteries, are the batteries interchangeable between different pieces of equipment. I know that I think my snowblower, the batteries, can work with the same brand lawnmower, but are the batteries a different size for string trimmers and chainsaws? And how does that all work?

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:49:57] They can. So I would definitely check out how they are. Most of the times the manufacturers have a certain line of of different equipment. They might have a 48 volt or 48 volt line or 36 volt line. And they say that these are the different equipment in this lineup that work together. Um, so take a look at that. Um, I know, for example, Greenworks has a couple different voltage lines and they have 24 four volts and 36 volt lines. And of course, the batteries between those two don't work, but they work on the same line. So, uh, make sure that you buy the right, right equipment for what batteries you have.

Isak Kvam: [00:50:38] Next question. Are there any rebates available or incentives for switching to electric outdoor equipment, similar to EV incentives.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:50:48] Nick, you want to take this one?

Nick Haeg: [00:50:54] Yeah, I'm happy to. Depends on your utility, um, area. So different utilities, rural, even rural co-ops sometimes have rebates available for electric lawn equipment of various types. Um, Minnesota also last legislative session passed a $1 million grant to help people, uh, transition to electric lawn equipment. Um, so there are there are opportunities out there, uh, for, um, funding to help, uh, with the upfront cost of adopting this equipment.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:51:35] Yeah, definitely.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:51:35] Check out the utility company first and first there and see if there are some, um.

Isak Kvam: [00:51:41] Perfect. And I see I see a note from Lisa to you that Elma mentioned that there's a column on the lawn equipment database that she shared that has like warranty information about it as well and grants. So that's very, very helpful.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:51:54] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:51:54] There's there's a lot of good information here. I mean, it has to for example, if I look at the battery lawn lawn mowers here, you first have the make and model. You have the photo of it cutting width in inches maximum cutting height inches. Then there's the weight column. They're different. What kind of batteries usually comes with uh what's the system voltage. What's the battery capacity and what hours? Uh, if it's self-propelled or not, if it has a collection back or not. Uh, what's the advertised runtime? If they have told something, then the price, other equipment and warranty. So this one provides you a lot of information, um, for, for all your needs. So make sure make sure to download that to use. Use it as one of your tools.

Isak Kvam: [00:52:39] Are there also. So when you commit to different types of outdoor equipment, you know, if there's an ego battery, are you able to use that battery in a different manufacturer, or do you kind of have to stick with one ecosystem or are there converters available? What does that.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:52:57] Mean? Usually not. We haven't seen too much standardization here. So we're still still, you know, in a different manufacturers using different batteries. That's how it is. Okay.

Isak Kvam: [00:53:08] And I know you shared a few, but what are some of the more reputable popular brands that are available? I know there's the full list that Elma shared and you've talked about Greenworks. I have an ego snowblower that I always recommend people. Um, what are some other popular brands that you're seeing a lot of Minnesotans use?

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:53:24] Well, if you think about, for example, um, we have the Makita. We have, uh, the Ryobi is is very, very common, um, brand. There are stills, which is, of course, a professional brand. Uh, oftentimes with this, then we have even some cheaper brands like works, which is kind of like an Amazon brand there. That is a Minnesota manufacturer. They have now electric equipment to both the snow blowers and lawn mowers and other equipment. And uh, and a good number of different manufacturers are nowadays offering these uh units. So there's really no shortage of options when you start to look at them.

Isak Kvam: [00:54:10] And then when you are shopping for electric equipment, where can you go maybe in the metro area to view this equipment, is it mostly at hardware stores that you can see it, or are there any special locations that folks should know about?

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:54:24] As far as I know, I think the hardware stores are the place. Uh, really? Of course, you can do a good portion of your, uh, homework, uh, through online, which I would definitely recommend. Watch some videos, what some user experience reviews and other things. Those are always very valuable when you start to consider different options.

Isak Kvam: [00:54:45] Okay, our next question is asking. It's about how long batteries last. And I know you shared yucca kind of saying, okay, I think 100 watt hours. Let's, you know, 1500 square feet. Do you have an idea of how long 100 watt hours would last? So I think this person doesn't know the size of their lawn, but they just know it takes about an hour. So they're trying to figure out how many watt hours they need for their lawn.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:55:11] That's really, really hard because again, it depends how fast you move and all of that. So it's it's that's why the lawn size is usually the best measure. But of course it totally depends on also how high your crashes. If you tend to mow often and you're just clipping like one inch off of it, um, it's much less work for the mower. So that's why the battery will last much longer. Or if you try to go bigger like 3 to 4 inch. Uh, lawn. Way more energy is needed for that. So there are so many different variables there. It's hard to hard to give a good, good answers to it. And that's why my rule of thumb that is one what ours can handle, 1500 square feet is also very average. So, um, it totally depends on how much do you let your lawn grow before you go and mow it?

Isak Kvam: [00:56:01] Okay. We have another question here. Um, if we are switching from a gas mower to an electric mower, how do we recycle or get rid of the old gas mowers? What's the most responsible, climate friendly way to get rid of?

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:56:14] Well, the most climate friendly. If you want to hear the most climate friendly way to do this, and you want to make sure that it's not used in the future anymore, you unscrew the spark plug, take fine sand a handful of fine sand, then pour the fine sand into the into the where the spark plug is. Then put the spark plug in there and try to start it a couple times after that, no one will get that motor started anymore because the cylinder is destroyed pretty much. So that would be from an engineering perspective. If you want to make sure that it's not internal combustion engine is going to be going to the to the junkyard. That's that's the way or recycle as metals, that's, that's the easy way to do it. And pretty pretty climate friendly way to do that. Um, of course you want to take it into some kind of a metal recycling location there and make sure that the oil is removed. Uh, the gasoline is removed so that those are also, um, taken taken care of properly in the process.

Isak Kvam: [00:57:15] Perfect. That is all of our questions today. So I am going to wrap it up here, share my screen with the last image. And I want to thank everyone for joining us today. Again. I will be sending a recording via email to everyone who joined today, and there will both be a video recording that will put up on YouTube, and we will also have an audio recording that we will put on our podcast, Decarbonize the Fresh Energy Podcast, which you can find wherever you listen to podcasts. And I want to thank Jukka, Nick and Elma for joining us today on the webinar All About Going Electric. If you want to get in contact with any of us, our email addresses are right there on your screen. Feel free to send us any questions you have. And with that, I will close out our webinar. Thank you so much for joining us and have a great rest of your day.

Nick Haeg: [00:58:10] Thanks everyone.

Jukka Kukkonen: [00:58:11] Thank you.

Jo Olson: [00:58:14] Thanks for subscribing to this episode of Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. You can stay up to date on our work at Fresh Org or find us over on social media. We're on Instagram, Facebook, blue Sky, YouTube, and probably some other things too. So find that on our website you can support Firstenergy's work today to drive bold policy solutions to achieve equitable, carbon neutral economies here in Minnesota and beyond. Again, just go to that website for the latest news from FirstEnergy and to make a donation. We also hope you can join us next week at Urban Growler and Saint Paul on May 21st for our end of the legislative session. Loggers and legislation gathering. All are welcome and your first drink is on Fresh Energy. So hey, bring a friend. Find more on our website. fresh-energy.org. Thank you to the band Palm-Psalm for providing our theme song. It's called TGAF. It's off of their album Otuhaka. Get the latest from the band at palmspsalm.com