Our Clean Energy and Climate Plans for the 2025 Legislative Session

The 2025 session of the Minnesota Legislature begins on January 14. Join the Fresh Energy team for a conversation about our plans and expectations for the coming session.

Podcast Guests:
Justin Fay, Senior Lead, Public Affairs and Advocacy
Brynn Kirsling, Senior Manager, Legislative and Grassroots Advocacy
Host: Jo Olson, Lead Director, Communications and Engagement

Further Reading:
- Blog: Our top 24 accomplishments of 2024
- Blog: 2024 legislative debrief

RSVP to kick off the first day of the Legislative Session with us at our "Lagers and Legislation" party at Utepils Brewing in Minneapolis on January 14! Your first drink is on Fresh Energy.

Fresh Energy’s mission is to shape and drive bold policy solutions to achieve equitable carbon-neutral economies. Together we are working toward a vision of a just, prosperous, and resilient future powered by a shared commitment to a carbon-neutral economy. Learn about Fresh Energy's work and our bold "Vision 2030: Fresh Energy's Strategic Framework" at our website fresh-energy.org.


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Transcript

Jo Olson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. Fresh energy is a Minnesota nonprofit working to speed our state's transition to a clean energy economy. My name is Jo Olson, and my pronouns are she her? I'm the lead director of communications and engagement at Fresh Energy, and I'm also your host today. I'm very excited to be joined by Fresh Energy's senior lead of public affairs and advocacy, Justin Fay, and senior manager of legislative and grassroots advocacy and curling for today's podcast. Welcome. Are you guys, like, warmed up and ready to talk?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:00:37] Super excited Jo.

Justin Fay: [00:00:38] No form is the word I would choose, but. 

Jo Olson: [00:00:41] I guess it is like six degrees today.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:00:42] While I do have a heating pad on my lap in my office because I don't mess around in Minnesota winter.

Jo Olson: [00:00:49] Hey, I think that's smart. Justin, I know you're at the office and in one of, like, the back rooms that is very warm, so you are literally warmed up and ready to go.

Justin Fay: [00:00:57] I'm warming. It's a work in progress.

Jo Olson: [00:00:59] Okay. All right. Well, good, because we have an awful lot to cover today, so I'm going to jump right in. Um, so if folks are interested in a debrief of what happened at the last legislative session, I'm just going to link to the prior blogs and past recordings in the podcast details. We're not going to spend a lot of time talking about last year today because we're looking ahead. Um, so turning to this year, I thought first we'd kick off this podcast by giving our listeners a bit of detail about the lay of the land ahead at the Minnesota Legislature. Um, and then I also want to talk about  Fresh Energy's public affairs team, who will be working at the Capitol, as well as the elected leaders who will be serving in the legislature this year, and what that overall landscape looks like from committee structures and chairs to special elections and beyond. Um, so we're going to start talking about staffing updates with the public affairs team. Um, but before we dive into that, I want to give a bigger, Fresh Energy staffing update for our listeners, because I don't expect everyone to be looking at our website every day. Um, so I want to share the news that after a year and a half of leadership and service at Fresh Energy, Brenda Cassellius is resigning from her position as chief executive officer.

Jo Olson: [00:02:13] She's going to pursue her calling back into the education sector. So Brenda's last day with Fresh Energy is actually January 31st. And of course, Brenda's choice to leave Fresh Energy is difficult. However, she is leaving the organization in a really strong, secure and future focused position with the executive leadership team. Uh, Justin Fay is on that executive leadership team. He's on the call with me today. Uh, I'm on the team. Margaret Cherne-Hendrick, Allen Gleckner, Mat Larson Krisetya and Julia Olmstead, all of whom have and will continue to lead Fresh Energy's programmatic and organizational progress. Of course, there's more information about the transition on our website, including some exciting details about the interim CEO, Sarah Clark a name some of you might recognize. So go to Fresh Energy org to read more. There's a post right up on the home page, so that's like the big umbrella staffing update for Fresh Energy. But now let's talk about staffing updates for the public affairs team specifically. So Justin, why don't you give folks the scoop on what our core public affairs team look like, who will be at the Capitol this year?

Justin Fay: [00:03:27] Awesome. I'd love to. Well, thanks. Thanks, Jo, and thanks to everyone listening to this podcast. We we do these a couple of times a year, and it's always a real treat to get to talk about our work and, you know, brag a little bit because we do we do some awesome business here at Fresh Energy, and we're really grateful to the partners and supporters and donors that we have in our community that support us and make our work possible. Um, again, my name is Justin Fay. I'm the senior lead for public affairs and advocacy. I use he him his pronouns, and I've been here at Fresh Energy for a little over six years and working in the public affairs world, uh, for, um, a number of years that I'm, I'm not comfortable saying the number on a recorded podcast, but, um, more than six, we'll put it that way. Um, the, uh, team that we have at the Capitol this year, uh, I couldn't possibly be more excited about, um, some of you are probably familiar with the name Anna Johnson. Um, Anna was on the public affairs team, uh, for about six years. Um, she left Fresh Energy earlier this year to pursue a very exciting opportunity working for, uh, Governor Walz and Lieutenant Governor Flanagan. Um, she's the senior policy advisor on energy for the governor's office, which is a amazing accomplishment for Anna. Um, and we're really excited to still get to work with her, in that capacity. But it's meant that we've had the had the both cause and opportunity to rethink and reimagine the team that we have working at the Capitol.

Justin Fay: [00:05:05] And I'm really particularly excited to be joined this session by Brynn, uh, who is on the podcast with us today. Um, and Brynn has been on staff at Fresh Energy for about two and a half years now. Um, and was initially hired, uh, into, uh, role doing, uh, grassroots and public engagement work. Uh, primarily. And as well as working with a number of our coalition partnerships. Uh, and but Brynn, prior to coming to Fresh Energy, had some really, really great experience actually working at the legislature for the Minnesota House. Um, and so, uh, Brynn is going to be stepping into the role of or has stepped into the role of legislative and grassroots advocacy, uh, senior manager. Um, so Brynn will be the day to day to day leader of our work at the Capitol this year, and we're really grateful and excited that Brynn was willing to step into that role. And it's a real fortunate that we have, uh, have have Brett on the team. Um, the other name that is probably familiar to folks who might be listening to this is John Berns. Uh, John has been Fresh Energy's contract lobbyist, uh, since 2014. Um, so it's been a decade of burns here at Fresh Energy. Uh, and, uh, at this point, I think John predates all. But I think two people on the Fresh Energy staff.

Justin Fay: [00:06:27] So, uh, that's pretty rare. That's like a real, um, major benefit to our, uh, legislative work to have that kind of institutional memory, uh, that we can bring to the Capitol in the form of our contract, or just somebody who's seen the arc of the organization over a number of years has seen the way that we show up and how that has both changed and stayed consistent in different ways across sort of the generations of staff that have, uh, have worked for our organization. So we're really grateful to have John. And then, uh, rounding out our team, we have, uh, Jackson Sweeney this year, uh, will be our, uh, session associate. Um, that's a new role, uh, still relatively new role that we created a couple of years ago to help, um, sort of reflect that our work ramps up during the session, and so we need to staff up accordingly. Um, so Jackson will be with us, uh, through the legislative session, um, and most immediately comes from working for the Minnesota Senate, uh, where he was a legislative assistant. So some really, really great, uh, direct experience there. Um, Ethan Culver, uh, is our new, uh, senior associate for coalitions and campaigns. Um, so that's a role that's very similar to the one that Brynn was doing previously. Um, will allow a lot of that work to To continue. And Ethan actually is a rehire here at Fresh Energy. So. Ethan was our Capital Pathways legislative intern, um, way back in the 2020 legislative session.

Justin Fay: [00:08:00] Um, and so we're very excited to have, uh, Ethan back at the Capitol. And then finally, uh, I mentioned Capital Pathways. Uh, for those that don't know, Capital Pathways is a an internship program that's sponsored by the Citizens League, which is a nonpartisan, uh, you know, civic, uh, you know, democracy and civic engagement, uh, focused organization. Um, the Capital Pathways program was created, uh, ten years ago. This is the 10th year of Capital Pathways, uh, and it was created specifically to, uh, support students of color, um, getting internships and work experience at the Capitol in legislative roles, either with NGOs, with, uh, state agencies, um, some, over the years, a few kind of private contract lobbyist firms have, uh, have had Capital Pathways interns. Um, uh, and so, uh, Ethan is one of our alums, uh, I mentioned, uh, we're welcome. Uh, our our new intern this year was, uh, Armando, who's a student at Macalester College. Uh, he's a senior there. Um, he'll be working with us at the Capitol at 10 to 15 hours a week. Um, and we're just really excited to be part of that program. Um. Fresh energy. Fresh energy has hosted a Capital Pathways intern every year that the program has been in existence. So, uh, we are an original host, uh, and excited to continue that tradition. Um, and, Jo, I think you have, uh, you have a key colleague who's going to be helping us out at the capital, too, right?

Jo Olson: [00:09:34] Yeah, yeah.

Jo Olson: [00:09:35] You've already gone through, like, a full complement of, uh, staff that we have working at the Capitol this year. And Christine McCormick on the communications team put in some real time last year at the Capitol, and I expect she will again this year. Um, doing some live tweeting and capturing videos for Instagram and Blue Sky. I actually shouldn't even use the term live tweeting anymore. Maybe. Is it is it like live skeets? Is skeeting the word now? Either way, Christine gives live updates from the Capitol, captures video kind of as a boots on the ground as far as like comms and social media go. So, um, look for Skeets, I guess, uh, from her coming up soon. Um, well, Bryn, turning to you. So the Capitol is, like, super familiar territory for you since you've worked there both before coming to Fresh Energy and then, like all last legislative session. Um, however, as Justin's gone over your role, this year is going to be different at the Capitol. So can you share a little bit about that and, you know, your hopes and dreams and expectations and goals? No pressure. But, you know, tell us what you think.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:10:43] Of course. Um, so just to introduce myself quickly, I'm Bryn Kirsling. Um, as mentioned, I'm our senior manager of legislative and grassroots advocacy. Um, and I use they them pronouns. So I came to Fresh Energy in 2022, and I had a background in labor organizing, state government policy work. I had just, uh, come from, uh, the, the state House as the Judiciary Committee administrator. I learned a lot of stuff, um, and came to Fresh Energy because I wanted to, you know, focus on an issue that was, like, really important to me. So, um, initially started the role, uh, growing our capacity to engage more people, uh, in the legislative process, in regular regulatory processes. Um, and more activities. So maybe you got a text message from me or an email from me about, um, things you can participate in. So, but now that grassroots engagement is, is largely going to be handed over to Ethan. So, um, you'll be able to chit chat with him over, over. Text message. If you're part of our Action Network, and I'll be focusing the majority of my time at the Capitol advocating for clean energy and climate policy. So really, this is, you know, to complement what Justin say, we're we're continuing to grow and empower people to engage in policy decisions. Um, and then filling in, in the changes to, to some of our staffing. So it's a really exciting year and we have a great team.

Justin Fay: [00:12:12] And, you know, Brent, I heard you mention that Fresh Energy has an action network. Uh, if folks listening to this wanted to get involved, uh, how would they do that?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:12:23] Um, you can go to the website, I believe. Jo, correct me if I'm wrong. It's it's on the home page. So fresh-energy.org. Um, if you put in your email and phone number, um, we'll be able to send you in real time, um, messages, Is, uh, over the last couple sessions, we've been able to do this. Um, so you you get the, uh, hot off the presses, breaking news on the most important things at the Capitol that you can engage in. Um, that actually makes a difference. Uh, I was actually looking at this. We. Over the last biennium, it was, you know, over, like, hundreds, if not getting into the thousands territory of of people engaging through Fresh Energy, um, to lift up climate and energy policy and and definitely credit credit due to to the folks listening and the folks in the Action Network who've who've made some of the victories over the last few years, um, a reality. So absolutely, part of it.

Jo Olson: [00:13:24] And for the real wonks out there, it's not just legislative stuff, like there are regulatory related action alerts about things happening at the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission. So it's not just like a three month period. There's like actually ways to influence energy and climate policy all year long. Um, and I think there's a party coming up for that group on Tuesday. I'm kind of jumping ahead. I was going to put this in the closing, but now feels like a really good segue. There is a Loggers and Legislation Action Network session kickoff party at Utepils Brewing on Tuesday, January 14th. So I hope you're listening to this podcast early and can join us. You can RSVP on our website in the events section. Um, Brynn, did you want to add anything? I know you're like our, uh, master of ceremonies at loggers and legislation this year.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:14:18] Yeah, come get a free beer or a non-alcoholic beverage of choice and come check out, um. It'll be a good complement to this podcast, uh, and learning how you can get involved in, in making things happen at the Capitol and beyond. But I'll also mention we this last year we rolled out the, the, um, Energy school, and I had no idea that supporters of Fresh Energy were so into. Taking quizzes about distribution plans and grid connectivity and hydrogen. And all of the above. So it's it was really fun. Um, and there's a lot more to. The programming and the action Network. Um, so you should join us.

Jo Olson: [00:15:01] And all those nerds and more will be at the party on Tuesday, including a bunch of staff. So, yeah. All told, it's a very good and important year for us to be fully staffed up on the public affairs team. And that doesn't even mention all of our policy experts who plug in on all the bills. Um, they come and testify, they go do defense. Um, but we'll get to that in a bit. So let's now talk about the landscape we're facing at the legislature itself. So it's super different from last year. But in terms of difficulty, it's nothing we haven't encountered before. Every year presents its own challenges. So Justin, can you give us the lay of the land? Um, and I should mention, I think we might have said this earlier, but the session begins this Tuesday, the same day as our party. Tuesday, January 14th. So, like, really, really soon. So, Justin, tell us what to expect.

Justin Fay: [00:15:54] I have no idea. No, I the, you know, session is a is a is upon us. The one uh, the one thing is, you know, it's like, you know, death and taxes and the legislative session are the two things that will always continue. Um, what what isn't continuing, though, is the political landscape that we've had for the last couple of years. Uh, so, uh, when, you know, Minnesotans went to the polls in November, uh, what they said they wanted is divided government. And, uh, what we ended up with is something that hasn't happened in Minnesota for nearly 50 years. Uh, and that is an even 6767 tie in the Minnesota House. So that's 67 Democrats and 67 Republicans. The last time that happened was way back in 1978. Um, the, uh, what's been happening since the election has been, um, I would say, uh, chaotic. Chaotic is the word that comes to mind. Um, so, uh, the kind of immediate aftermath of the election, uh, leadership between the House Republicans and House Democrats negotiated a power sharing agreement. Um, and it was actually, I thought, pretty, uh, in broad strokes, kind of kind of almost. I might even be so bold as to say it was kind of cool. Um, the, uh, structure was going to be or is intended to be, uh, co-chairs. Um, so every committee in the legislature would have a Republican co-chair and a Democrat co-chair.

Justin Fay: [00:17:30] Um, the membership of the committees would be evenly split 5050. Of course, the floor is 6767. So literally everything just splits straight down the middle and, you know, done that way. What it means is literally nothing. Forget about becoming law. Nothing's even going to move through the process without some element of bipartisan support, which is an interesting an interesting dynamic. And I think really quite would be will be quite challenging, um, given just the extreme kind of polarization of our politics. Um, but I, you know, as an observer of politics, I think it's fascinating. And, and there's a lot of really kind of maybe interesting things that we could learn running the legislature this way. Um, that, that process and that power sharing agreement has gotten a lot more complicated, uh, in the last few weeks. If, uh, those of you are kind of following watching the news, might be aware. Um, there's been a successful challenge to the residency status of one of the member. Elects members elect from the Democratic side, and that person has now said that. He's not going to continue to appeal and will not take his seat when the legislature convenes. Uh, on, uh, January 14th. Um, that has thrown the power sharing agreement. I'll, I guess I'll just say into doubt. Um, and it's not really clear what's going to happen other than, um, we're likely looking at a couple of weeks, maybe more than a couple weeks of extreme uncertainty and perhaps the house not even really being able to operate at all.

Justin Fay: [00:19:15] Um, the, uh, the district that's been, uh, is being vacated is, uh, there will be a special election. It's been scheduled for January 28th. So that's just two weeks after the session starts. Uh, and at that point, you know, there'll be a little bit more certainty, and I suspect that will maybe be when things start to calm down a little bit. But, um, that feels far away. Still, as we sit here recording this podcast a few days before the session begins. So, uh, buckle up. Um, we're in uncharted waters, and it's going to be really interesting to watch. Um, I did want to just sort of name one other, uh, dynamic that is at play and that's, uh, in the Minnesota Senate. Uh, so the Senate was not on the ballot this year. So the membership is the same, um, as it's been the last two years, uh, which is 34 Democrats and 33 Republicans. Um, unfortunately, that has also been thrown into flux. Uh, just a couple of weeks ago as we're recording this, um, state Senator Kerry Dziedzic, uh, unfortunately passed away, uh, following a multi year long battle with cancer. Um, maybe just a comment about Senator Dziedzic. Uh, she was a really remarkable leader, uh, who served in the Senate for, uh, over a decade.

Justin Fay: [00:20:37] Um, she was the majority leader of the Minnesota Senate in 2023, when we ran the table on climate and clean energy and, um, navigating those issues and so many others, uh, through such a closely divided, um, political, uh, sort of landscape was an incredibly arduous task and required an immense amount of skill and experience and trust. Um, and she's one of the really unique leaders that I've encountered in my time as an advocate who was able to do that. So, um, of course, our thoughts are with, uh, Senator D6 family and colleagues, and, um, she'll be very deeply missed at the legislature. Um, the there will be a special election to fill her seat. Um, that's also scheduled for January 28th. Uh, what that means in practice as we convene the in the session is that for the first couple of weeks at least, the Senate will also be divided. 3333. Um, so that's probably a little less disruptive than what's going on in the house. Um, just because there's already a committee structure and committee chairs and, um, probably wouldn't be a lot of bills passing anyway off the Senate floor in the first couple of weeks. Uh, but it is a thing to keep an eye on and just adds to the uncertainty and chaos that we're going to be experiencing. What do you, uh, what do you think of?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:22:00] Well, I wanted to add that, you know, this. It won't. You know, all of the context here doesn't slow down our work. We're still going to be having meetings with legislators, um, going over bill language, being prepared for for the moments, um, when, when maybe the dust settles or or there is those opportunities to, um, get bills heard, um, have conversations and grow our advocacy. So while this is this is happening. Uh, on the on the TV and in the news. You know, folks can rest assured that, you know, we're working behind the scenes, uh, every single day.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:22:36] Perfect.

Jo Olson: [00:22:36] Thank you. So what I'm hearing is it is going to be difficult to rain, but that isn't a surprise for us. Um, in fact, we've been planning for it. It was pretty, pretty clear late last year that that was the direction things were going. So let's talk now about a few key like overall strategies for Fresh Energy. And bring you kind of mentioned this a little bit like during what's happening in the next like month, we're not going to be on the sidelines. We'll be actively doing things. So before we dive into some of the specific build goals themselves that we'll talk about a little later, Bryn and then Justin, why don't you talk to us just about like strategic approach to session, if you would?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:23:17] Yeah. And first thing I want to note here, um, is, you know, some, some background and context for, you know, Justin mentioned running the table in 2023, and nearly all of those priorities and victories during a really successful year in biennium were maybe a decade in the making for some of those. There were a long time coming. There was a lot of thought and partnership that grew to meet a political moment. So we were ready, um, for for those opportunities to make bold, positive movements in decarbonizing, decarbonizing all sectors of our economy. Um, but, you know, I think we intend to do to intend to do the same here. You know, we're entering into another historic of a different flavor biennium. Um, and we're really good at seeing the long game, finding short term victories, um, looking at other strategies, um, building relationships and being prepared for, uh, a climate ready, you know, state legislature that wants to pass bold action. But, um, you know, finding every avenue to take the the short term victories where we can.

Justin Fay: [00:24:27] I think that's really well said. Brandon, I would just maybe add a couple of quick thoughts. I mean, one is, you know, the policy, some of the policies that we adopted, uh, as a state over the last couple of years, um, are still in phases of being implemented. Um, and in particular, the 100% clean electricity law, which is arguably the centerpiece of the of the last decade, uh, in terms of climate policy here in Minnesota. Um, we really need that that to continue to be successful. And of course, passing, um, policy standards and actually building projects that, uh, accomplish 100% of the result of 100% of our electricity being carbon free are two really different things. And, uh, we're going to be working really hard this year, both at the legislature and elsewhere, uh, to make sure that we're creating conditions where projects can get built, can get built quickly, can get built where they're needed. Um, can build, get built in ways that drive, you know, maximize economic development and job creation here in Minnesota so that we're, uh, reaping the economic benefits of the climate policies we're passing. Um, and then, of course, making sure that we're, uh, you know, doing our role as, as a leading advocate to provide a strong defensive bulwark against, uh, attempts to either weaken or slow down or undermine the policy framework that we do have here in Minnesota. Um, and that that will include the lobbying work that that Brynn will be leading, that will include, um, a lot of communications work and lifting up, you know, the success stories or, you know, the the policies and programs that we've passed here in Minnesota and as well as nationally at the federal level are working. Um, and so the absolute best defense is to tell those stories, uh, loudly and often. And that's what we're going to be doing, uh, in the months ahead.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:26:22] Yeah. And I think we'll we will continue to be exceptional in all political environments. We also have the smartest subject matter experts around us and are excellent at systems navigation. So onward and upward.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:26:37] Yeah, absolutely.

Jo Olson: [00:26:38] And and speaking of upward, um, let's turn the conversation now to, um, some of the policies that we're thinking about and already actively working on. Um, so let's start with if I were to, like, spin the wheel, it lands on geothermal planning grants. Um, so now we have some really excellent momentum built around geothermal. Um, from last year. So catch us up. Um. What happened and what's going. What do we hope is going to happen?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:27:10] Yeah. So last year, uh, geothermal planning grants were one of our many wins in the 2024 session. Um, and we helped expand clean geothermal building heating in our state. So the legislature established a new grant program, which just opened recently on December 15th and appropriated 1.2 million to support local governments in the Pre-design phase of geothermal plant geothermal development. So this year, the Fresh Energy Fresh Energy team is looking forward to advancing more geothermal friendly policies. We're thinking about ways to make them even more accessible, accessible to cities who want them, and this particular program has had a lot of interest, and it's super exciting to see more and more cities, um, want to engage, uh, in, in this kind of technology. So we want to maximize the impact and support more cities. Cities build those relationships, um, and grow. Who wants to pursue, uh, geothermal energy?

Justin Fay: [00:28:18] And I just want to chime in and add this, this idea to focus on planning grants for cities and local governments was really inspired by some folks up in the city of Crookston, Minnesota, um, and their, uh, community organization, Empower Crookston. Um, our, uh, Fresh Energy colleague, John Vaughn, has been working with folks on the ground in Crookston, um, over the last, uh, I guess probably year and a half, almost maybe two years now. Um, and, uh, I think it's a really great example of, um, kind of lived experience on the ground that folks in communities are, um, are encountering, um, then informing, um, policy design and hopefully a model that we can continue to replicate. I think here at Fresh Energy, where we've got sort of really thoughtful, uh, consistent feedback loops as we make policy, implement policy, and then, um, the experience and of what that policy implementation looks like, directly informing new and improved and better policy design over time.

Jo Olson: [00:29:26] Excellent. Perfect. So geothermal is certainly one to watch. Um, and now we're pivoting to one that I feel like I've heard come up a lot around the office. And it's really fun to say Energy Raiders. So it's not Energy raiders. We're talking like energy raider r a t e r not to be confused with like, Raiders of the Lost Ark. So Energy Raiders. Justin, tell us what the opportunity is and how you are going to come up with a way to communicate this that doesn't immediately bring Indiana Jones to mind.

Justin Fay: [00:30:00] Well, I, I love Indiana Jones. So I have to ask, Jo, do you like what's your favorite Indiana Jones movie? I like I like Last Crusade and I like Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Jo Olson: [00:30:12] I feel like you're setting me up to fail here because, you know, I'm going to say none, Star Trek. Like you saw that.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:30:19] Coming, right?

Justin Fay: [00:30:20] I'm not even going to. You know what? I'm not even going to take the bait. Let's let's talk about let's talk about our climate crisis. Um, no. Uh, so energy returns, um, is an issue that we've been exploring and developing, uh, an approach to here over the last year or so. So within the Federal Inflation Reduction Act, that's the, uh, the acronym is IRA. It's the landmark policy achievement, arguably, of the Biden administration, certainly as it relates to climate, um, uh, and has resulted in unprecedented levels of federal funding in the form of grants and tax credits and, um, low and no interest financing, uh, for projects, um, that, uh, as that law is implemented, there's, there's programs within it, uh, that are designed to support improved building performance. So things like building a home or a commercial building to passive passive house standards or net zero. And the in order to qualify for the federal support that folks are entitled to, you need a certified what's called a certified energy rater to basically certify that your building, um, meets whatever the applicable benchmark is. And, uh, what we have been learning as we've been, again, you know, having conversations with folks on the ground around the state, uh, is that energy raters, at least here in Minnesota, are really, really hard to find, particularly if you don't live in the Twin Cities.

Justin Fay: [00:32:00] Um, so if you're in the 80 or so counties in the state that are not part of the Twin Cities metro area, this is a pretty real barrier to being able to access portions of the Inflation Reduction Act. Um, we see that as a pretty significant geographic equity issue. And, uh, something that we want to try to rectify, uh, in the coming legislative session. So we're exploring a few different, uh, models at this point for exactly how we might go about that. Um, but what the, uh, kind of our potential approaches all have in common is, uh, the state assuming, uh, more of a proactive leadership role in ensuring that these resources, this particular resource is available, um, wherever you happen to live in the state of Minnesota, and that we're doing everything we can to fully unlock the potential of, uh, these historic federal investments, most of which, um, aren't going to just disappear because of the change in federal administration. And I suspect we might talk about that a little bit later. Uh, but as long as we have them, we need to make sure we're using them. And this is just one small part of the overall strategy to do that.

Jo Olson: [00:33:11] Perfect. Thank you. So, well, we're on the subject of buildings. Let's also talk about another one. That's a bit of a mouthful. A thermal resource standard, which might be getting a new name someday. Um, but my understanding is that in terms of the thermal resource standard policy, we're kind of playing the long game here. Is that right, Justin?

Justin Fay: [00:33:33] Absolutely. You know, when we, uh, passed the 100% clean electricity law a couple of years ago, it was a really exciting moment. But there's an argument that it sort of has left us a little bit without a center of gravity as a climate advocacy community. And, you know, as we do our work here at Fresh Energy, you know, there's there's things we do that are highly technical and very much in the weeds and in the details and nuance of, um, how policies are crafted, how things are implemented, um, how certain programs are going to work or can be designed to work most efficiently or most effectively for reducing emissions. And all of that's really, really important work. But it's missing something really profound. If we don't have the big flagship, um, kind of what I, what I call or think of as vision policies that go with it, those sort of what's the North Star that we're trying to reach for. And a thermal resource standard is a way to do that for the building sector. It basically, um, creates a framework for ratcheting down, um, emissions from the gas sector over time. So you peg it to what, you peg it to a date? Um, 20, 40, 2050 and work work down, um, uh, using a market based mechanism between now and your, your end date, when the goal would be to have zero emissions, uh, from our building sector. So it's a it's both a very ambitious and a really bold policy and not something that we're, uh, anticipating or would expect would happen in a single session. But a conversation that we think is really important to start. And that can be a really kind of foundational piece as we think about the next iteration of our our climate work here in Minnesota.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:35:20] And, you know, I'll add here, just similar to the long game with the 100% clean electricity bill, there's opportunities to build confidence and do public education with Minnesotans, with Minnesotans, and create collaborative partnerships, you know, create some incremental benchmarks that put us on that path. And I think we intend to be thoughtful and do the same thing with with a thermal resource standard in the coming years.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:35:49] Awesome.

Jo Olson: [00:35:49] Thank you. So I feel like every legislative session, we talk a lot about partners and the coalitions that we're collaborating with. So let's talk about some of these key partnerships that we're collaborating with this session. So a lot of what we.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:36:05] What we do.

Jo Olson: [00:36:06] Is to support the goals of other organizations and coalitions. And I know, you know, if you were to peer into the crystal ball, you wouldn't be able to see everything. And I think, you know, if we did try to put together the list right now, it would take up more time than we have for the podcast. Um, so why don't you guys give us a few ideas of what our supporters can expect to see us plugging into?

Brynn Kirsling: [00:36:30] Well, one, one partnership I'm excited about. And this actually comes from our colleague John Vaughan and his his relationships that that span the state. But, um, we've been working with the White Earth Tribal and Community College. Uh, they have a super exciting project. Uh, Justin and I actually went up and toured the college and saw the renderings of, uh, a, a trade center that they are hoping to fund and build. Um, and it answers, I think, you know, some significant workforce questions, especially in the region. Um, bringing more plumbers, HVAC, electrician, skilled trades um, into the region. Uh, but also their plans include a renewable energy center. So it's it's kind of a win win win. Um, when we're looking at workforce development, clean energy and answering a real need, uh, in greater Minnesota. So they've, they've been wonderful to, to work with. Um, and, uh, actually the day of this podcast recording, we just, uh, met with them. So, um, we're excited about growing that partnership, um, and having some regional impact, uh, and doing something exciting.

Justin Fay: [00:37:40] Now I'll chime in and maybe just add, uh, an example of, like, a maybe more formal, long, longer standing coalition that we've been a part of. Um, so Drive Electric Minnesota is a coalition that's convened by our, uh, good friends at the Great Plains Institute. And, uh, drive electric Minnesota is really, uh, pretty broad set of set of stakeholders that are engaged in different aspects or facets of the electric vehicle space. So that includes electric utilities. It includes, uh, charging companies. Um, it includes manufacturers. Um, it includes, uh, nonprofit advocates like Fresh Energy, um, and, uh, the Drive Electric Coalition every year puts together a package of policies which kind of like we were talking about earlier, includes things that are kind of bigger and broader and also some really important technical nuance to make sure that, um, make sure that it all works. Uh, and we'll, we'll, we're looking forward to working with, uh, drive electric again, uh, here in the 2025 legislative session. Um, and I, you know, I really feel like coalitions like this that have, um, what I maybe would describe as some political diversity to them, um, in terms of the participants are really well equipped to be able to navigate and at least be relevant in divided government. And so in a kind of uncertain, um, landscape like we're in, um, we're fortunate to have, uh, coalition infrastructure like this to be able to rely on.

Jo Olson: [00:39:18] Awesome. Thank you. I know those were, um, some of the the two we definitely wanted to touch on, and I know others, I'm sure we'll be writing about them, posting about them on the blog. And then of course, as session progresses, we'll have continued updates on the podcast as well. So a surprising number of things, uh, keep us hopping each legislative session. And one of those things is like simply keeping an eye on the things that are bubbling and could become something we need to get more actively engaged in. So I wonder if you could quick run down a quick list. Um, of our listeners of of things we're tracking and keeping an eye on and could possibly plug into if.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:39:59] If.

Jo Olson: [00:39:59] It is called for. So, Bryn, why don't you kick us off here? You have. You have kind of like the buzziest one.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:40:06] I know. I think everybody's very aware of the sort of renewed attention to data centers and potential energy uses and some some context for that. Minnesota already has data centers. You know, we're familiar with navigating the energy burden and the impacts on communities. So, um, when this comes up, our attention, you know, will be on continuing to make sure that we stay on track to meet the state's decarbonization and climate goals. Um, and that, you know, projects don't disrupt that, that we continue to figure out how to find some common ground and do things intelligently.

Justin Fay: [00:40:45] Um, yeah. I think data centers is a really fascinating issue. And it's you know, what? What's unique about it is, I think, just how much kind of economic activity there is behind it. Um, it reminds me a lot of another issue that we've been, um, you know, engaging in increasingly over the last couple of years here in Minnesota and that's, uh, sustainable aviation fuel, uh, which is, uh, a way to, you know, it's fueled a fuel type that can be used, uh, in, you know, you know, large commercial aviation, um, that is not zero carbon, but does emit significantly if you, if you do it correctly, does emit significantly fewer emissions. Um, and aviation is one of those sectors that, you know, we sometimes think about as an organization, you know, working from the easiest to decarbonize to the hardest to decarbonize. And aviation is going to be a challenging, very challenging sector to fully decarbonize. So the possibility of having, um, reasonably effective interim solutions like sustainable aviation fuel, uh, which that can be produced from um, from different types of, uh, agricultural feedstocks that we can grow right here in here in Minnesota, um, is pretty attractive. Um, uh, which, again, the devil's in the details, but there's a way to do it where the climate benefits are really significant. And we're capturing, uh, we're capturing a pretty solid chunk of the market share of an emerging product, uh, at, at ground zero. So, um, if you've booked a flight recently, you may see sometimes when you click through, there'll be the little option that that airlines will your airline might prod you to like pay a little bit extra to use sustainable aviation fuel. Uh, we'd love to get this market to a place where it's not like a boutique thing that you have to pay three extra dollars for on your $400 ticket, but it's just kind of standardized that it's what, uh, airlines are, are starting to use and that we're incorporating real, uh, climate benchmarks and metrics as part of that.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:42:54] I think another another thing I'll, I'll add here, you know, we have to mention the, the all the overlaying context here of the state budget. And I think that's been in the news quite a bit. Um, and to, to recap, there's a increasingly small budget surplus in 2025 and 2026. Um, and a projected budget deficit after that. Um, further context is the state does have a very healthy, um, budget reserve, I think, to the tune of $3.5 billion. So, um, you know, I think the, the anomaly that was previous years of, of historic budget surplus surpluses, probably due to the pandemic and large economic changes. Um, those are I don't want to go so far as to say the only the only time we'll see that in our lifetime, but more likely than than not. So what we're seeing now is more normal conditions, more of what we would expect. Um, and navigating just the reality of of keeping a balanced, sustainable budget, um, in Minnesota. So our job is to give the best case we can for climate and energy policies. Um, and when a final omnibus is pulled together that our priorities are top of mind, and we've made an excellent case, um, for those to to reach the finish line.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:44:18] Perfect.

Jo Olson: [00:44:18] And I think.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:44:19] That is.

Jo Olson: [00:44:21] Speaking of reaching the finish line, bringing us toward the end of our podcast. So I always like to save the last question as kind of like a catch all. Like, what did I miss? Any parting thoughts? Um, so I put that to you guys and I think, Justin, I'm going to set you up here with saying I want, um, your take, the Justin take on the how the federal election is going to impact session or any implications you're seeing for the IRA. Like, I know a lot of people have been asking you this, so I'm hoping you can roll in a in a concise answer in your wrap up. How does that sound? Does that seem like extremely doable?

Justin Fay: [00:44:57] I have a really concise answer for you.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:44:59] Oh. All right.

Justin Fay: [00:45:00] Nobody nobody really knows yet. But, you know, to maybe just expand on that a little bit. I think, you know, and we touched on this earlier. Um, you know, the thing to remember about the Inflation Reduction Act and for that matter, also the bipartisan infrastructure law, for those of you that remember that one, um, those are acts of Congress. It would take another act of Congress to undo any part of them. So that's not something that any administration can do unilaterally. Um, so particularly things like those tax credits that we talked about, which are really, really important for, uh, electric vehicles, they're really important for renewable energy projects. Um, they're really emerging, really important for, um, emerging technologies. Um, those aren't going to go away overnight. Um, and the other thing I would add is it's really hard. Particularly, you know, we talked about the the small margins that we have here at the legislature at length. Um, the same thing is happening at the federal level where there's very, very slim margins in both the US House and the United States Senate. And it's really hard to build a coalition to repeal things that are working, um, under any circumstances.

Justin Fay: [00:46:13] And that the tighter your margins, the harder that's going to be. So, um, you know, we have a lot of, uh, just, you know, anecdotal success stories from, uh, federal investments that have happened here in Minnesota. And it very, very easily can demonstrate that those are happening in a bipartisan way. And by what I mean by that is, you know, there are Republican members of Congress that have had significant, significant investments from the IRA in their districts, and the same with Democratic members of Congress. So there is a bipartisan experience of success with those policies. And, um, you know, I if we're picking teams, I'm pretty happy to be on team defendant um, because I think that the record is is great. Um, and, uh. Yeah, I, I'm optimistic. Um, it doesn't mean there won't be changes. It doesn't mean we don't have, uh, hard fights and hard decisions ahead of us. But, um, I'm optimistic that we're going to be able to keep some really important building blocks in place.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:47:19] And I share I share in that optimism, too. Justin, I think we're we're the whole team is is ready and um, and prepared to, you know, still go after some good wins and defend what what's needed. Um, and, you know, I think I'll also just mention one more time that we're, we're seeing slim margins everywhere. So it's a greater emphasis on the listeners, folks in the Action Network, um, participating, reaching out to your legislators, lifting your voice up. Because if we're talking the tiniest of margins here, we know that that makes a difference. So I encourage you all to, if you're not already getting our texts and emails to join in and and participate this legislative session.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:48:04] Well put.

Jo Olson: [00:48:05] Wow. Really excellent closing. And you guys, I kind of just threw through that one at you and you answered really well. So I think with that we're going to wrap up this legislative outlook podcast. Thank you both, Brynn and Justin, for giving our listeners some insight into what we can expect, uh, for clean energy and climate here in Minnesota. So thank you both.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:48:27] Thanks, Jo. I'm really. This is my first time on here too, so.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:48:30] Oh my gosh, I can't.

Jo Olson: [00:48:31] Believe that you're such a pro. It didn't even occur to me. So thank you for your taking your inaugural podcast run with us.

Brynn Kirsling: [00:48:40] Happy to.

Jo Olson: [00:48:41] Well, for our listeners, you can stay up to date on Fresh Energy's work at Fresh Energy org or follow us on social media. As I mentioned earlier, we are skating on blue Sky now. So if you're listening to this before the first day of session, go to our website at Fresh Events and plan on joining us on January 14th for our party. Our session kick off party loggers and legislation. Like I said, it's at Utepils in Minneapolis. Register at fresh. Org slash events and your first drink is on Fresh Energ. Thanks for subscribing to our podcast. And don't forget, you can support Fresh Energy's work and make a donation today by making that donation at Fresh Energy. Org slash donate. Thank you to the band Palm Psalms for providing the theme for our podcast. Um, the song is called Dgaf and it's off of their album Ohtuhaka. Get the latest from the band at www.palmspsalm.com/. Thank you for listening.