Debriefing COP29 with J. Drake Hamilton

The 2024 U.N. Climate Conference, also known as COP, will be held in Baku, Azerbaijan from November 11 through November 22. J. Drake Hamilton, senior director, science policy at Fresh Energy, will be one of the more than 40,000 participants from around the globe to attend.

On December 3, J. sat down with Fresh Energy's Isak Kvam to unpack her experience at COP29. You can stay up to date with J.'s experience at COP via her daily blog here.

Fresh Energy’s mission is to shape and drive bold policy solutions to achieve equitable carbon-neutral economies. Together we are working toward a vision of a just, prosperous, and resilient future powered by a shared commitment to a carbon-neutral economy. Learn about Fresh Energy's work and our bold "Vision 2030: Fresh Energy's Strategic Framework" at our website fresh-energy.org.


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Transcript

Jo Olson: [00:00:11] Hello and welcome to Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. Fresh energy is a Minnesota nonprofit working to speed our state's transition to a clean energy economy. My name is Jo Olson. I'm the lead director of communications and engagement here at Fresh Energy. And today, I'm here to share with you a recording from a conversation that my colleagues, Isaac Quam and J. Drake Hamilton had about Cop 29, which just finished up in Azerbaijan. J had the good fortune to attend this year, and she and Isaac sat down to unpack what happened and what didn't happen. Thank you for tuning in and thank you to the band Palm Psalms for providing our theme song. It's called TGIF. It's off of their album oh two Osaka. Get the latest from the band at Salm-Salm dot com. And with that, I'm going to begin the recording.

Isak Kvam: [00:01:06] Hello and welcome to Fresh Energy's webinar cop 29 and Fresh energy discussions with Gerry Hamilton. This is the second in our two part webinar series about Cop 29. If you tuned into our first Cop 29 webinar, you know that we covered what J was anticipating for her trip to Azerbaijan. And today we're going to debrief her recent trip there. She's been back in Minnesota for a bit now, so we're going to pepper her with questions now while she's still fresh from her trip. To give you a bit of an overview of today's webinar, we're going to spend the first 45 minutes hearing about Jas cop 29 debrief. And then we'll hold about 15 minutes or so at the end of the webinar for J to answer all of your questions. I do want to do some housekeeping first about the webinar. First, Yes, we will be sharing a recording of this webinar with everyone who registered tomorrow. Will be emailing a link of the recording to everyone who registered, and will also be posting this webinar to our YouTube channel, as well as our podcast, Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast. If you aren't already a subscriber, go ahead and find that on your favorite podcasting app. Second, a few of you submitted questions prior to today's webinar and thank you for doing that. We will absolutely be taking questions at the end of the webinar today, but if you have any questions in the meantime, you can submit them through the nifty Q&A function from zoom.

Isak Kvam: [00:02:34] It should be a little button on the bottom of your screen where you can submit your question, and you can also see questions that other folks have submitted, and even upvote questions that you are also interested in hearing so that they rise to the top. And I believe that, um, Zach, Christine was in here working on the chat, but I'll get that open in a bit. And you can use that to introduce yourself with your name and where you're tuning in from today as we get that opened up. And for those that are new to fresh energy, I'm going to give you the quick scoop on who we are and what we do. Fresh energy has been working on clean energy and climate policy issues here in Minnesota and throughout the Midwest for over 30 years. We are changing the world through bold policy solutions that move us to a just, carbon free future. And we're helping everyone who lives here end their dependence on fossil fuels, electrify their lives, and build a healthy, clean energy economy where all can thrive. Now let's do some introductions. My name is Isak Kvam. My pronouns are he, him, and I am the senior communications associate and writer here at Fresh Energy. And I'm joined today by the star of the show, J. Drake Hamilton, who is our senior director of Science policy. J., why don't you tell us a bit about yourself?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:03:57] Welcome, everyone. My name. My first name is J.. You can just use that J., when you ask a question. I am the senior director of science policy at Fresh Energy. That means I work all the time, every day of where I work. Life for the last 29 years, talking about the climate problem and especially about cost effective climate solutions. What I'm really excited about right now is I've just been appointed by Governor Tim Walz to his Advisory Council on Climate Change. I'm one of 15 Minnesotans serving for the next three years for free, and we are to advise Governor Walz on the next steps he and the legislature need to take on climate change. I'm grateful to see you all here today.

Isak Kvam: [00:05:00] Thanks, J.. So let's kick it off with the main part of the webinar today. So, J., why don't you, um, kind of first, let's start with the level set. Why don't you tell us about what cops always cover and how they are set up?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:05:16] Yes. And this year was the 29th annual conference of the parties, that is, the countries who have signed the climate agreement called the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. Almost every nation in the world is at the cops. This one was held in Baku, in Azerbaijan, on the western shore of the Caspian Sea. And like all cops, it has a central Goal. Thus, the annual Cop 29 has a central goal of. To adopt a new climate finance goal. A specific goal which is vital for vulnerable developing countries to help them decarbonise and adapt to climate impacts. And also their challenge was to determine who would foot the bill for this. At Cop, there were around 60,000 people. It was held in a sports stadium, which is a typical venue. And what the leaders of Cop said was when they opened the Cop, they said, we specified in Dubai last year that we would triple the world's renewable energy and double energy efficiency. And we need to figure out who will provide and how much. Finance will they provide for that? Now, the United Nations process requires that everyone who signs the treaty be asked to be at the at the Cop, and they take turns in hosting it. The process requires peer pressure in person from one country or one region to other countries. It is also sometimes called name and shame them. The process of Cop requires voluntary cooperation among nations with widely different interests. I'll give you some examples of that. Every country at the Cop, every country who's a party Has veto power. All decisions must be made by consensus. I'll turn it back to you, Isaac.

Isak Kvam: [00:07:59] Perfect. Thanks so much, J.. I think why don't you tell us about the ways in which Cop 29 was unusual or featured unexpected elements this year?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:08:11] Yes. And these are in no particular order. Okay. Um, in the summer of 2024. So before the cop even started, the presidents of Cop 28 in Dubai last year, the president of this Cop 29 and Cop 30 joined together to form a three group of cop cop cop presidents, and they called it the troika. The troika consisted of from the United Arab Emirates. The president. The president of this cop. Cop 29, whose name is His Excellency Mukhtar Babayev and also included Her Excellency Marina Silva, who may preside over Cop 30 next year in Brazil's Amazonian. She is the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change and the troika announced at the beginning of this Cop. Quote. We look forward to our continued collaboration and to making significant strides together in accelerating global climate action. So what I also noticed around Baku is about two thirds of the Baku workforce was working from home during Cop, so there were many fewer people in the city than there normally would be, and also no schools and universities were in session for the two week of Cop. So what I noticed is that many of the teenage high school age kids were volunteers at the Cop now. Azerbaijan is a wealthy country, so they got their own beautiful jackets in the colors of cop. And they were also very helpful because they spoke a little bit more English than the other residents of Baku.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:10:23] Now, what I also noticed was that Azerbaijan officials leading the conference haven't done enough to push forward the ambitious deal that would build upon the Dubai consensus, in which the 198 countries of the world a year ago finally agreed to transition away from fossil fuels and accelerate decarbonisation within the next ten years. On the second day of the summit, Azerbaijan's president not the president of the Cop, president of the nation Aliyev called fossil fuels a gift from God. And as you know, Saudi Arabia was also at Cop produces around 12% of the world's crude oil. We'll talk about them a little bit later, too. The final deal was muddled and it took longer to reach than people anticipated. But the deal, which is called the Baku deal, Required that the country's collective parties raise $300 billion per year in climate financing, starting in the year 2035. For every year after that. It also included an aspirational goal to collectively raise $1.3 trillion per year, primarily from private investment. So this Cop was called unofficially the finance cop. That means that particular focus was placed on financial commitments and mechanisms needed to mobilize the trillions of dollars required to address climate change globally. Such levels of investment may sound to you implausible, but they actually are achievable. And if the world delays much longer, the economic and social losses will pale in comparison to that cost.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:12:48] Now, in fact, on the first day of the Cop, the executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, his name is Simon Steele. He encouraged human ingenuity for the full transformation. Transformation needed to address runaway climate change. The fall 2024. Just before the Cop this report came out, the UN Gap Report estimated that current national climate targets could cause temperatures to rise by at least 2.6°F, which is far Are above the global goal of keeping that temperature rise to no more. Than 1.5°F. And it is. He said, that it as if the world. Is continuing getting knocked down and getting back up again. And how to fight climate. The Cop process is the only process. Available on the globe to keep humanity from heading to five degrees C of warming. So spiel laid out what I call the ABCs of commitments. Each country needs to make. These are called the 3.0 Climate Action plans that every country must submit to the UN. Get this on February 10th, 2025. Three months from now, the A stands For the plan must have an ambitious economy wide emissions targets. B stands for these targets must be broken down into every sector they come from and into all the different greenhouse gases. So it needs to be a full reckoning.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:14:53] The C stands for each country's plan needs to have credible regulations, regulations, laws and credible funding to make this happen. So the parties must unlock accountable, effective climate action and finance. The countries must prioritize creating policies that attract private sector investment. Policies that signal to potential investors that there is Certainty that the policies will work and help everyone in every country. So the countries should build climate policy roadmaps for each sector at Fresh Energy. We're breaking that down into sectors that include energy, transportation, agriculture, heavy industry and provide technical assistance to implement those plans, which could unlock trillions of capital that are now sitting on the sidelines. It's not that the money doesn't not exist in the world, but it has not been unlocked yet. All the countries need to build confidence that investments aligned with those priorities are lower in risks to humanity. So the countries have to submit what are now called New collective quantified goals. They have to address three pillars of climate action one. Climate adaptation. Two mitigation and three loss and damage. They also have to do this by implementing transparent processes so that other countries and the UN can track each other's progress in reducing emissions. So we have to have a future that does not end more human lives and livelihoods. Countries need to agree on a new climate finance goal and, um, finance climate action.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:17:18] Um, we also need that to get carbon markets going. So to do this, we need about $2 trillion in climate financing. That's a lot of money in 2024. That's nearly two times of the investment in fossil fuel subsidies in 2022. So we know we're putting a lot of money subsidizing fossil fuels. We're paying about twice as much money we could take and get this problem under control. So we are squarely in the world of trillions of dollars being invested already in solutions such as renewable energy and zero emissions transport. Sadly, countries are also undermining climate investment efforts by continuing to invest in fossil fuels. So finance was a subject that had never before been at the center of a cop. Where? How much money do we need? And who is going to donate it? Negotiations about investments, um, happened at the Cop in both renewable energy and infrastructure that can protect people from climate fuelled one droughts, climate fuelled fires, climate fuelled floods and climate fuelled sea level rise. Stronger mechanisms will also be needed to hold all parties more accountable. Climate change will bring massive economic and social losses already being experienced, so we need to scale our climate investments to prevent those losses. We need to be specific about the next steps, and these next steps need to be more ambitious, Much more ambitious.

Isak Kvam: [00:19:26] It seems like this year was really sort of an inflection point with the change in Cop, where we have a lot of the climate solutions at the ready. Now it's really about unlocking the financing to really get them going at the speed that we need them to be. Um, so I'm wondering, J., if you can talk more about what was decided in Baku this year and what else was conveyed by what you repeatedly observed while you were on your trip to Azerbaijan?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:19:53] Yes, I would be happy to. First, I'm going to spend a few minutes talking about the pandemonium at the end of Cop. The last days and Nights of Cop 29 were a full out pandemic pandemonium. It had to go over time. It was scheduled to end by 11:59 p.m. on Friday, November 22nd. It did not finish until Sunday morning at about 3 a.m., and the last five days of the cop. Most of the negotiating parties were up all night, every night. Um, so cop 29 went over about 36 hours after the scheduled exit parties agreed to the text at about 3 a.m. on November 24th, and then the cop was then gaveled closed. And parties? No parties. Remember I told you earlier that all parties, which are all countries who have signed the treaty, they all have the right to veto anything. No party exercised their right to veto the final Text. And that itself was a huge victory. Now I should break it down to the two main negotiators, teams that were most important. And this will surprise some of you who may have heard in my blog from Cobb when I talked in the first week how Saudi Arabia was trying to hold hostage what anyone everyone in the previous cop in 2023 had agreed to, which was that we were going to make a transition away from fossil fuels. However, the Saudi Arabians were not successful. Instead, the two main players were all the wealthy countries led by the United States, the United Kingdom and the European Union working together.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:22:11] And as well, there were dozens of delegations from Latin America, Africa and Asia who were working together. They represented developing nations. Especially important were countries like India, Kenya and the fast disappearing small Pacific islands who have so much to lose. Both of these sets of players were negotiating day and night for about the last five days, and they were able to agree on who should pay for the finance. It was always it was never in question that the wealthy countries would pay. But two other countries came forward and they would not let themselves be formally called developed countries. And they are also not formally called rich countries. But the two countries came forward and said They will contribute to the finance. Those two countries are China and South Korea. That was another big victory. Now I'm going to repeat some of the things I said earlier. Remember, the United States and the United Nations process requires peer pressure, that one country or a group of countries, places on other countries. That is what was happening during the shuttle diplomacy going on in the last five days. So, for example, I know the person who is the lead of the negotiating delegation for Germany. She was doing shuttle diplomacy for those five nights between Saudi Arabia and many of the developing nations, and she was obviously very successful at that. So the final deal was muddled, but requires that the countries collectively raise $300 billion per year in climate finance starting in the year 2035 and continuing.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:24:28] And it included an aspirational goal to collectively try to raise the gap $1.3 trillion that these countries are really going to need. So negotiations negotiators struck an agreement to triple the flow of money to help developing countries. Formerly, it was $100 billion a year. That amount has now been tripled. That is a really big and vital change. So the developed nations have to triple their climate aid deliveries. By 2035. Now at the Cop, India called that amount of money a paltry sum, according to Panama's lead negotiator. He said the process at Cop 29 was chaotic, poorly managed and a complete failure in terms of delivering the ambition required. He was referring to the missing $1.3 trillion of finance. We saw I saw more than two weeks of divisive debate over who should pay and how much the resulting $300 billion a year struck and made it into the agreement, quote, falls far short of the trillion plus figure that the poor countries had sort a huge sense of frustration and often anger was heard for the last five days, especially from many poorer developing countries. They were complaining about the huge compromises they have been forced to make to ensure the multilateral process survived. But I think what they realised is this is the only game in play on the globe. This is their only option of getting help and getting aid.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:26:45] This is the beginning of more that they need. Independent experts have placed the needs of developing countries much higher than $300 billion a year, at at least $1.3 trillion per year. This is the amount those environmental and economic experts say, must be invested in the energy transition of low income countries. In addition to what those countries already spend to keep the planet's average temperature rise under 1.5°C. However, what was interesting in Baku is every party agreed that more climate climate finance money is needed. The text of climate finance is unstable, so parties agreed to also help raise $1.3 trillion per year in global climate investments by 2035. Now, to give you a sense of this, $1 trillion per year is less than 1% of our global GDP. The global annual gross domestic product exceeds in US dollars about $100 trillion. So we do have the capacity to reach annual climate investment needs. The amount is not unprecedented. For example, during Covid 19, emergency measures exceeded the cost of $10 trillion globally. So we know we have that much money. The world now urgently needs the vision, ambition and political will to address the climate crisis at scale. We also need to replace many of the debt producing loans that are now being, um. Well, there are people like the world Bank who like to give out debt producing loans. Many of those needed to be substituted with no strings attached grants.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:29:08] Because these are countries who cannot take on more debt. And interestingly, Brazil's environmental minister, who I mentioned before, Marina Silva, she argued that this $300 billion was a good down payment on the next year's run up to Cop 30, which will be held in Berlin, Brazil. And that is where we need countries to start bringing altogether more than $1 trillion of money. There was also lots of good news during the the cop outside the US. The rest of the world is racing ahead in the low, low carbon economy. Everyone I talked to from every country success at Cop 29 and next year's Cop 30 both hinge on an ambitious deal on climate finance. A centerpiece of Brazil's Cop 30 will be called mission 1.5 degrees C to keep alive the Paris Agreement title of limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees C. Interestingly, Britain was the first country to generate electricity from coal. It's where the Industrial Revolution started. I learned about it in social studies when I was a kid. But on September 30th this year, that era in Britain came to an end when the UK closed its last coal fired power plant amid much self-congratulation. Congratulations. And it became now one of the third European countries that have coal free electricity by polluting the air. Coal kills millions of people every year, most of them in poor countries. It contributes mightily to climate change, a problem that disproportionately harms poorer people. Another thing that passed in Baku by a Cop 29.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:31:28] They announced that the loss and damage fund is now operational and will begin begin giving away money to developing countries January 1st, 2025. Great news! It was an interesting piece of news that I gathered and the first week of Cop when I heard the CEO of ExxonMobil speak, he was live at Cop. His name is Darren Woods. And he warned the US president elect. He warned him against leaving the Paris Agreement. The CEO of Exxon said, quote, I'm not sure how drill baby drill translates into policy. Also, I noted that the country of Argentina, which has taken a very strong right move to its politics. It confirmed that it will also not leave the Paris Agreement. Indonesia made a really great announcement because prior to Cop 29, they had a goal. And they're very, very dependent on coal fired electricity. They had planned up until two weeks ago, they were planning on closing all their fossil fuel power plants By 2057, but they made the decision in Baku. They're going to close them all within 15 years, so no later than 2039. That's a huge advancement. The second week at Cop 29 was also the start of another major global, um, conference. It was the G20 conference. It was held in Rio de Janeiro. G20 countries are. I can list them if you want, but they're all the, um, very large and very wealthy, usually countries in the world.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:33:39] They meet once a year. And as they were starting the meeting, President Biden was flying. President Biden did not come to Cop 29, but he went to the G20 meeting. And Simon style. Remember I mentioned him before. He's the UN's head of this treaty. He said he found an opportunity to advance negotiations in Baku. While the negotiations similar were going on in Rio de Janeiro. And he wrote a letter, a public letter to the G20. And he said, you guys account for 80% of global emissions and 85% of the world's economy. So you play a decisive role in the world's ability to meet the Paris Agreement, 1.5 degree target and our ability to mobilize climate finance. Can't you be working alongside us even though you're half a world away? Steele wrote to them, asking them to stress collective responsibility, and it was a big part of Discussion at the G20. So that was also good news. Now, businesses who were at Cop 29 also emphasized one business after another on a panel would say companies matter as much as countries. We need to get companies on an aggressive, faster paced climate action path. But specifically, we need to get the other 1000 biggest countries in the world. And we don't accept commitments to take climate action. We expect those companies to set performance accountability that will be transparent to everything. So one final fixed feature inspires my hope out of cop rather than dread or Resignation.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:35:51] This is the fact that every year renewables get cheaper, especially solar panels. Every year the installed base grows. Last year, China added more solar capacity domestically than the whole world could boast in 2015, when the Paris Agreement was signed. That is a huge and very important growth. As rollouts get bigger, prices drop lower and larger rollouts become feasible. This is the change that you can all rely on. It provides reason to believe that the world is not as stuck as it seems. Emissions can and will fall. Economic modeling has routinely underestimated the rate at which solar panels, Batteries and wind turbines can get cheap. So estimates of the costs of decarbonising the energy system are routinely too high. The difference between a the annual investment needed to meet new energy demand with clean technology. And b the annual investment without this new technology appear to be under 1% of all countries GDP. So we know this amount of money is available. We need to get it applied. Poor countries in which capital is costly need help. Renewables have higher capital costs and lower operating costs. That technologies which have to buy fuel and that hurts people. Without ready access to finance, rich countries like ours have moral and pragmatic reasons to provide financial help to the global South. They could, for example, guarantee loans so as to lower their costs. Now, just after the cop, I saw an interview with the former UN secretary general. You may know his name.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:38:06] Ban Ki moon. And what he wrote just after the cop was, he reminded us, and I'm reminding you that tackling climate change is an enormously difficult task. It requires overhauling the world's power plants, the world's cars, the world's factories, often using technologies that barely exist today. Even the best designed UN summit can only play a small role in this larger project process. So no one single cop can deliver the full transformation that every nation needs. Most of the work will be done by policymakers and engineers and businesses and scientists in those 198 individual countries. The Paris Agreement back in 2015 was a giant market signal that has energized all of these wonderful good points that I stressed, but essentially it has delivered trillions, trillions of dollars of investment so far. The Cop finance deal is thus a down payment for a safe, equitable future. It is 300 billions of dollars per year to developing countries for every year after starting in 2013 would be tripling the current finance goal. So this deal again is called the Baku Finance Goal. It's abbreviated BFG and also approved this year was the operation of UN carbon markets and as well the full operational operational operation of the Loss and Damage Fund. The loss and damage fund was agreed to in 2023, in Dubai and it's going live on January 1st, 2025. That's great news. And now I'll turn it back to Isaac and I hope to get to your questions soon.

Isak Kvam: [00:40:37] Thanks, Jerry, and I'm glad to hear about the Loss and damage fund. I know that that was definitely one of the bigger outcomes from Cop 28 that we talked about on this webinar last year, so it's fun to finally see that kind of come to fruition now. Um, so like J. said, um, now we're going to transition to our Q&A session for the rest of the webinar in these last 20 minutes or so. Um, but before we do, I'm going to quick dive into three things. And as I roll through these, a quick reminder to folks that you can submit your questions through the Q&A button on the bottom of your screen, if you haven't yet. And we also have some pre-submitted ones that folks shared as well. So first, um, the first thing I'd like to share is that, yes, a reminder we will be sharing a recording of this webinar via email. We'll send it to you sometime tomorrow, so keep an eye on your inbox and remember it will also be on our YouTube channel as well as our podcast, Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast. Second, we have another webinar coming up later this week. It is our 2025 Electric Vehicle outlook. This Friday, December 6th, from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m., we'll be hearing from Yuka with Shift to Electric and Fresh Energy's Jo Olson to dive into all things EVs, including market trends, the new and used EV market updates to charging plug standards, and much, much more.

Isak Kvam: [00:42:01] This webinar also has a Q&A session at the end, so you'll have a chance to ask our EV expert anything and everything you need to know about electric vehicles. You can register for that webinar by visiting the events page on the Fresh Energy website, and I'm also going to drop a link to it in the chat right now, so you can sign up for that this Friday. And then the last thing before we dive into the Q&A, I know I would be in big, big trouble with Fresh Energy's development team if I didn't remind you all that Fresh Energy is a nonprofit. We rely on individual donors just like you to help make sure that our work happens and you can help support clean energy and climate work like what you're seeing today. By making a year end donation, you can make a donation any time at fresh dot fresh energy.org/give. So that's my little plug before we get into the Q&A. So J., I want to kick off the Q&A with one of our pre-submitted questions that we had from Amy. Um, which was could you tell us if there was any discussion of the climate emissions from military activity at Cop 29?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:43:12] Yes. Thank you, Amy, for that question. Every cop I've been to, I've heard discussion, um, with pointed examples of what needs to be happen with that military budget and money that should be spent on climate action. I heard it again in a panel of about five panelists. One of the panelists raised that that issue at the US center. The US center is one of the big pavilions at Cop. This one is run by the US federal government. So yes, it was definitely discussed. Now, I don't I don't hear everything that goes on at the Cop, of course, because I can only be one place at a time, but I'm sure it was discussed at many sessions. Thank you. I have I just saw a question that I'd like to answer next. Is that okay, Isaac? Yes.

Isak Kvam: [00:44:08] Go for it.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:44:08] Yeah, I saw that, um, my friend John had posted a question, and he said $300 billion is too little and takes too long because it won't be ready until 2035. And he asked, can this timeframe be accelerated in next year's Cop in Brazil? Yes. And I, I was able to meet briefly the Minister of the environment for Brazil, and her name is Marina Silva, and she called the $300 billion a down payment on our next our next cop. So she said to me, we're going to be definitely discussing accelerating this. So that was very good news. Um, doesn't make anything for sure happen, but I want to see it on the list. The short list of the priorities for Cop 30.

Isak Kvam: [00:45:12] We have another question that's more specific to Minnesota instead of the global Cop conference. So what takeaways do you see for Minnesota's future after this year's Cop 29 conference? Are there things Minnesota is doing well or that will need to change based on this year's global climate summit?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:45:31] Minnesota is doing more than any other state. Um, I'm very proud of that. And Minnesota already has taken in a lot of the federal money going that's available to any state that writes a proposal. Many, much of the money has, um, I don't know what the proportionate, um, breakdown of it is, but we've been doing a great job, especially at the Department of Commerce, for bringing this federal money into Minnesota. In fact, over 90% of the federal money has already been sent out to states. So nobody's going to be taking that money back. It's up to subnational interests, which is just the UN's term for places like states in the US and a number of parties all over the Cop mentioned in particular Minnesota, New York, California, Massachusetts and Maryland as states that will be moving forward faster in the next few years. So people shouldn't worry about what's going on in Minnesota. You should do whatever you can to help it happen even faster. But, um, there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. And the most important word is implementation. Okay, now that we have been taking in money to do very specific and very difficult projects, we need to get those projects accomplished, implemented and make sure that they benefit everyone in Minnesota, especially given the justice40 proviso in that federal money that says 40% of the federal money must go to the poorest people in your states. So that is also now being tracked. So very, very important.

Isak Kvam: [00:47:47] Our next question is from Satish. Satish I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly. The question is how enforceable are the loss and damage pledges, given that they need to go through whatever political process each country has to come up with with its budget?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:48:02] Um, I'm not sure. I quite, um, correct me if I don't fully understand your question, but I think I do. Yes, everything that goes through this comp process depends on most of the action happening in individual countries. So you're right. If a country has a particularly, um, barrier. Full process. It's going to be harder to get that money. So citizens in that country have to work vigilantly on those, and they should also build alliances with other countries in their region to use the name and shame to make sure that if we're in Latin America, for instance, and if you're in a country that has a lot of barriers in getting the money out, form an alliance with others in Latin America, and mostly these countries are already members of a lot of alliances, and they can use pressure on neighboring countries to do more because they can readily say, look, this is what country A is doing. And it makes it more straightforward for the people who most need this money to get the money. There is no reason why we can't do the same kind of process here in our neighboring country. B yes, doable.

Isak Kvam: [00:49:35] Thanks, J.. Our next we have another pre-submitted question. So, J., I know you talked about this during the today's webinar, but if you could just pick one agreement or outcome that was a game changer from this year's Cop meeting, which specific outcome would you pick as the biggest game changer?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:49:53] I think it was that every country that I heard speak on the floor of the cop, that is, the negotiating parties in the room. Every country said $300 billion, billion, trillion dollars. $300 billion. Excuse me is not enough. We know we need more like $2 trillion per year. Everyone said that. So there was widespread agreement, and many people pointed out that the current text coming out of this Cop is not strong enough. So I hope that this will be part of the marching orders that the UN gives to Cop 30 to straighten this out. What's interesting is that in 2024, all of the multilateral development banks in the world we know most prominently here in the US, the world Bank, um, they got together and they had a series of in-person meetings to talk about how they can make this financing of the poorer countries more available at lower costs. And they have a list of things that could be done. And the new president of the world Bank is totally behind this, too. So you should watch him. Um, and watch what he does. And and it's getting easier and easier for us to track. Um, so that opens a whole set of transparencies that we can make sure that people are accountable. They're not just making promises. They're accountable for what they're actually loaning or outright giving to countries who need it.

Isak Kvam: [00:51:52] Our next Pre-submitted question says asks overall, what role did the US play in this year's discussions at Cop 29 and what will our role be going forward? And I think that kind of touches on a question in the chat as well that's asking about, you know, the next president coming in. What will the US's role be going forward in global climate discussions?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:52:15] Well, it's.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:52:16] Not yet known what the US is going to do going forward. So I can't comment on that. But I can tell you what I saw at Cop 29. The US had several very large pavilions and for all one of them for four whole days, 12 hours of four days and the other for the full two weeks had 12 hours every day. One was the US center, which is run by the federal government. And that's where you went to hear John Podesta, our lead negotiator, Ali Zaidi, President Biden's national climate adviser and the biggest hero, the secretary of energy, Jennifer Granholm, who came and spoke there seven times every day. So they had a big influence. I was also very often at another pavilion run by Americans called America Is All In. And they also had a whole day's worth. For three days of speakers, including two of my favorites were Senator Sheldon Whitehouse from Rhode Island and Senator Edward Markey from Massachusetts, who are very much experts. And they came and they spoke to all of us. A crowded room on a Friday morning. They came. It was the first thing in the morning.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:53:58] And they came and they said, we know the economics of climate. We know the damages of climate, and we know some of the solutions to climate, and we are not going to be silent. They are senior members of the US Senate, and they are going all in to make sure that American takes much more of a leadership than some people think may happen. And here is me. I got to meet Senator Whitehouse, and I was thanking him for some things he's already done and saying, and I was telling him about what Minnesota is doing on climate action. This is before he was on the panel with Senator Markey, because he had heard me say so many good things about Minnesota. He included Minnesota in his remarks from the global stage, which was thrilling and very, very useful, because if you're talking about my home state of New York, maybe your home state of California, those are coastal, more progressive states. Minnesota is much more purple, and seeing Minnesota rise to the top of all US states in how fast they're implementing climate actions and clean energy, transportation is getting everyone's attention.

Isak Kvam: [00:55:31] I'm glad that question was asked. If folks want to see more photos from J.'s trip. She has a daily blog from her time at Cop 29 on the Fresh Energy website that you can visit to see more of those photos. Just like that. So we still have some time for a few more questions. Um, J., what were some of the biggest challenges or sticking points during negotiations this year?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:55:57] Well, I think. You know, I was I'm not a negotiator. I am not a member of a party. So I don't get access to the private deals that go on. But I was really disappointed in what the Azerbaijan Cop president did. And he was not nearly as strong as the Cop president back in Dubai, who was very vocal. And he made sure that their website that every one of the 100,000 people in Dubai were looking at every day to see what the latest news is. They could get live webcasts like that, not in Azerbaijan. So they were not doing all that they could have done to make sure that information was getting out to everyone there, and I was very disappointed in that. I think what we'll see in Brazil is the next host. And I just saw the numbers. Brazil sent 1900 people to Baku. Why did they send so many? Because they know they're going to be hosting one of these next year. They know what to do. Well, they know what wasn't done quite as well as they wished it was. They have to make it better in Belém, Brazil. And I was on one one of the flights I was on to get to Baku. They had everyone else on the plane was Brazilian. And they had many planes going to Baku. So that is a good sign.

Isak Kvam: [00:57:44] And then we have about a minute left here. But Catherine has a question about why the $300 billion contributions don't start in 2035. So we know that, you know, it's not only about reducing emissions, but also reducing emissions as quickly as we can to mitigate the worst effects of climate change. 2035 seems like a really long ways off. Is there a reason that those don't start for ten years?

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:58:07] Well, um, you remember the first pledge that the world's nations made was in Paris, which happened in 2015, and that was for $100 billion. And they managed to raise $100 billion by 2022, but their deadline was 2025. So it shows you that when you set a goal and you put pressure on all the countries, you can get earlier delivery, and that's what we have to look for. Then we have to expect accountability on every country.

Isak Kvam: [00:58:46] Makes sense. Thank you so much for answering all of our questions and giving us a debrief about your trip to Cop 29. And thank you, everyone for joining us this morning. You can look for an email from me tomorrow with a link to today's to today's recording and other information. And with that, I'm going to close today's webinar. Thank you all for joining us and have a great rest of your day.

J. Drake Hamilton: [00:59:07] Thank you.

Jo Olson: [00:59:11] Thank you for tuning in to the recording of that webinar, and thanks for subscribing to our podcast, Decarbonize the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. You can stay up to date on Fresh Energy's work at Fresh Energy. Org or follow us on social media. Word to the wise, we are on Bluesky now. You can head over to our website for the latest news and to make a donation visit us at Fresh Energy. Org and thank you again to the Minnesota based band Palm Psalm for the use of their song off of their album Otuhaka for our theme music. Thank you for tuning in.